Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Out of Focus area > The lounge

The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 9th December 2014
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,623
Thanks: 387
Thanked 547 Times in 462 Posts
Likes: 3,343
Liked 2,313 Times in 1,524 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Maybe if they all spent more time playing Candy Crush?
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Simon Bee (9th December 2014), Zuiko (9th December 2014)
  #32  
Old 9th December 2014
Jim Ford Jim Ford is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Watford, Herts..
Posts: 8,334
Thanks: 456
Thanked 590 Times in 512 Posts
Likes: 2,653
Liked 1,632 Times in 1,044 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
We could do much worse than bringing Ken Clarke out of retirement. He seems to speak a lot more sense than most of the others on all sides.
He was deputy chairman of BAT for some years, which is enough for me to condemn him!

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 9th December 2014
Simon Bee's Avatar
Simon Bee Simon Bee is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bridgend, South Wales
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 142
Thanked 211 Times in 180 Posts
Likes: 421
Liked 296 Times in 187 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevvyf1 View Post
and today the "credit card" ethos of "have today and borrow and maybe ? pay back tomorrow" is ingrained in hearts ... like a sword, chaffing the air out us ...

The old fashioned, save for it and pay cash - is almost a thing of the past ... but not here in this house
Quite true Chevvy,

These days debt seems to be part and parcel of everyday life for many folk, "I want it and I want it NOW" culture. Then again I guess if the vast majority of consumers waited and saved up for their trinkets most companies would go out of business as they themselves have such high debt, leases and other overheads to furnish on a monthly basis

And I'm with you on saving up and paying in cash too.

Simon
__________________
“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept”
― Henri Cartier-Bresson
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 9th December 2014
Simon Bee's Avatar
Simon Bee Simon Bee is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bridgend, South Wales
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 142
Thanked 211 Times in 180 Posts
Likes: 421
Liked 296 Times in 187 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
we just need politicians and economists with a little imagination, to think outside the box.
I agree with you there John,

Simon
__________________
“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept”
― Henri Cartier-Bresson
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 9th December 2014
DerekW DerekW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,089
Thanks: 90
Thanked 336 Times in 263 Posts
Likes: 33
Liked 536 Times in 374 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

and this forum is not guilty of encouraging people to go and spend on new toys.....
__________________
This space for rent
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Jim Ford (10th December 2014), Ralph Harwood (9th December 2014)
  #36  
Old 9th December 2014
Chevvyf1's Avatar
Chevvyf1 Chevvyf1 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 12,269
Thanks: 1,744
Thanked 1,281 Times in 1,112 Posts
Likes: 1,169
Liked 522 Times in 392 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
Does the National Debt really matter?

I remember in the 1970's how the economic focus was always on the Balance of Trade deficit. Each month the figures were gravely announced to cries of "We can't go on like this!" Yet when did you last hear the BoT deficit mentioned? Maybe that means good news and the problem has gone away - but no, in September we recorded a record monthly deficit of 2.8 billion and it passed without mention, so I guess it doesn't matter any more.

So could the same be said of the National Debt? Sure, it's high, but as a percentage of GDP it's roughly the same as France, slightly worse than Germany, slightly better than America and less than half of Japan.

Historically it's been much worse. Currently the debt is approximately 90% of GDP but following the Napoleonic Wars it was 260%, in 1919 it was 127% and after WWII it rose to 250%. What this tells us is that we really cannot afford another war, especially not at the moment.

But what if we could magically repay the debt? Pension funds would suddenly lose one of their main markets for investment and be forced to invest in riskier markets at much lower returns. Little old ladies would suddenly receive a cheque for the value of their Premium Bonds, a lump sum that no institution would want and savings rates would probably drop to minus figures.

So debt is good, we just mustn't let it get out of hand. 90% of GDP sounds frightening, but what percentage of household annual income is a typical mortgage?

Anyway, we could simply print money to trim the debt. Yes we could - Sterling is no longer related to gold reserves, yet alone the proverbial two sheep and a goat. But wouldn't that stoke inflation? Actually, repaying debt would have the opposite effect, so we might have to print a little extra to filter into the economy through higher benefits (the most efficient vehicle for distribution) to counteract this effect.

So it's not all doom and gloom, we just need politicians and economists with a little imagination, to think outside the box.
John, you are quite (as intoto) eloquent
__________________
.
.
[I].
.
I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

the ONE photo album
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 9th December 2014
Simon Bee's Avatar
Simon Bee Simon Bee is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bridgend, South Wales
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 142
Thanked 211 Times in 180 Posts
Likes: 421
Liked 296 Times in 187 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekW View Post
and this forum is not guilty of encouraging people to go and spend on new toys.....
No harm in spending on new toys, we all deserve a treat now and then, just remember to spend within your means. Trouble is todays 'ultra' consumerist society needs you to do the opposite

Simon
__________________
“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept”
― Henri Cartier-Bresson
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 9th December 2014
OM USer's Avatar
OM USer OM USer is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London
Posts: 12,196
Thanks: 2,395
Thanked 1,509 Times in 1,437 Posts
Likes: 6,256
Liked 1,428 Times in 911 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevvyf1 View Post
...The old fashioned, save for it and pay cash - is almost a thing of the past ... but not here in this house
Nor here. Although technically it is paid for with the credit card (for convenience and payment protection) but that is paid off at the end of each month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekW View Post
and this forum is not guilty of encouraging people to go and spend on new toys.....
Well, this sort of expenditure comes out of the savings rather than running up any debt (but it does mean the savings are not there in the future).
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 9th December 2014
Simon Bee's Avatar
Simon Bee Simon Bee is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bridgend, South Wales
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 142
Thanked 211 Times in 180 Posts
Likes: 421
Liked 296 Times in 187 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OM USer View Post
Nor here. Although technically it is paid for with the credit card (for convenience and payment protection) but that is paid off at the end of each month.
Same here, in the words of Mr. Punch .... "That's the way to do it"

Simon
__________________
“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept”
― Henri Cartier-Bresson
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 9th December 2014
Chevvyf1's Avatar
Chevvyf1 Chevvyf1 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 12,269
Thanks: 1,744
Thanked 1,281 Times in 1,112 Posts
Likes: 1,169
Liked 522 Times in 392 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bee View Post
No harm in spending on new toys, we all deserve a treat now and then, just remember to spend within your means. Trouble is todays 'ultra' consumerist society needs you to do the opposite

Simon
__________________
.
.
[I].
.
I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

the ONE photo album
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10th December 2014
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,623
Thanks: 387
Thanked 547 Times in 462 Posts
Likes: 3,343
Liked 2,313 Times in 1,524 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bee View Post
No harm in spending on new toys, we all deserve a treat now and then, just remember to spend within your means. Trouble is todays 'ultra' consumerist society needs you to do the opposite

Simon
But we don't have to!

The problem is that modern marketing is designed to make us feel inadequate, incomplete, 'missing something' or just 'out of date' if we don't buy their latest whatever. It is the marketing department's job to part us with money that we wouldn't otherwise spend, and they really don't care whether we need or can afford their merchandise.

Far too many people are taken in by this, and all too often they are the very people who can least afford it.

How often have we parted with real gems to buy the latest, greatest car, equipment or whatever, only to realise a week or two later that we were perfectly happy with what we had, but now it is too late?
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
George Dorn (24th December 2014)
  #42  
Old 10th December 2014
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 5,813
Thanks: 58
Thanked 818 Times in 747 Posts
Likes: 40
Liked 3,243 Times in 1,749 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
But we don't have to!

The problem is that modern marketing is designed to make us feel inadequate, incomplete, 'missing something' or just 'out of date' if we don't buy their latest whatever. It is the marketing department's job to part us with money that we wouldn't otherwise spend, and they really don't care whether we need or can afford their merchandise.

Far too many people are taken in by this, and all too often they are the very people who can least afford it.

How often have we parted with real gems to buy the latest, greatest car, equipment or whatever, only to realise a week or two later that we were perfectly happy with what we had, but now it is too late?
This morning my wife and I renewed our vows: to never again buy each other Christmas presents, including this year.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Chevvyf1 (23rd December 2014), OM USer (10th December 2014)
  #43  
Old 10th December 2014
DerekW DerekW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,089
Thanks: 90
Thanked 336 Times in 263 Posts
Likes: 33
Liked 536 Times in 374 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

We buy Christmas gifts throughout the year but rarely in December.
__________________
This space for rent
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 22nd December 2014
gregles gregles is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3,176
Thanks: 614
Thanked 396 Times in 381 Posts
Likes: 175
Liked 112 Times in 67 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
There was a discussion on QT last week (from Doncaster) when two members of the audience, both public sector workers, said they would happily pay more tax to save the NHS.

What they don't seem to get is that not only does the private sector have to pay for their salaries, benefits and pensions, we also have to pay for their taxes and National Insurance!

And when they go on strike for better pensions there are people on much lower salaries with no pensions at all who have to take time off of work to look after children, or otherwise pay for extra childcare.

However, we cannot blame the public sector for these attitudes; we have Brown and Blair to thank for promising unaffordable salaries and pensions in return for votes.
And when planes and helicopters crash from the skies and people are mown down in the streets it is these same people that you would demand, and indeed expect a response from. These hard working people that you seem to hold in a less than favorable light will be there for you because that is what they do and do so well. It seems to me that in your wee version of reality, you feel you are the only one making a tangible contribution to society. You must be aware that this view of society is warped but I can only guess that you feel comfortable voicing opinions that are so divisive because they are continually being propagated by the main stream media. It would be lovely to hear something radical being proposed to actually improve this country and for an obviously intelligent fella like yourself to grasp the nettle and make your own mind up with regards to what would make a better society.
__________________
My Flickr Home Page
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Chevvyf1 (23rd December 2014), Jim Ford (23rd December 2014), Magus (23rd December 2014), Shaw (23rd December 2014), StephenL (23rd December 2014), Zuiko (23rd December 2014)
  #45  
Old 23rd December 2014
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 22,126
Thanks: 1,986
Thanked 3,164 Times in 2,472 Posts
Likes: 3,419
Liked 4,472 Times in 2,124 Posts
Re: Doomed, the whole World is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregles View Post
And when planes and helicopters crash from the skies and people are mown down in the streets it is these same people that you would demand, and indeed expect a response from. These hard working people that you seem to hold in a less than favorable light will be there for you because that is what they do and do so well. It seems to me that in your wee version of reality, you feel you are the only one making a tangible contribution to society. You must be aware that this view of society is warped but I can only guess that you feel comfortable voicing opinions that are so divisive because they are continually being propagated by the main stream media. It would be lovely to hear something radical being proposed to actually improve this country and for an obviously intelligent fella like yourself to grasp the nettle and make your own mind up with regards to what would make a better society.
Greg, I couldn't agree more. What I fail to understand is, if the Public Sector is such an easy way to make a living and all at the expense of the Private Sector, why don't those poor, downtrodden souls in the Private Sector get cushy, overpaid jobs in the Public Sector instead?

Public Sector workers must tire of hearing over and over and over again that they are being paid for by someone else. Who are these Public Sector workers anyway? The policeman who has just risked his life arresting a dangerous criminal, the surgeon who has just saved a life, the firefighter who has just carried someone from a burning building, or maybe the social worker who was just about to knock off early at 6.30pm but ended up working until midnight because a mother and children had fled from domestic violence and needed emergency accomodation.

Just think who you would prefer to be first on the scene if you were badly injured in a car crash, a lawyer, banker, accountant, company director or paramedic? So who is worth the most money?

But what about the "Gold Plated " pensions? Actually, compared to my banking pension, I was quite surprised to learn that my friend (an FE lecturer) gets only 80th increments for each year worked (compared to my 60th), has now got to work an extra 5 years before he can receive it and has to pay an extra £70 per month contribution on top of what he already pays.

But what if we could drive Public Sector pay down even more? That would leave workers with less disposable income and who would suffer - the Private Sector through lost business, and don't forget that this loss would be magnified by the multiplier effect. So in some ways it's the Public Sector that pays for the Private Sector!

That is something which the present Government has failed to understand and one of the reasons why, even after nearly 5 years of stringent cuts, we still have a rising budget deficit.
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there — even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Zuiko For This Useful Post:
Chevvyf1 (23rd December 2014)
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Jim Ford (23rd December 2014), KeithL (27th December 2014), Magus (23rd December 2014), Ralph Harwood (23rd December 2014)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Political Threads in the Lounge Zuiko The lounge 54 22nd December 2014 01:36 PM
Political Threads In The Lounge Zuiko The lounge 32 6th February 2014 07:07 PM
Why MFT is doomed - report mike_j The lounge 20 21st January 2014 04:49 PM
Doomed to failure David Morison Foto Fair 3 5th September 2012 08:00 AM
As the political pendulum swings ... jdal Foto Fair 4 12th November 2010 10:07 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:23 PM.


© The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger