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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #1  
Old 26th January 2016
Kiwi Paul
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Buying into another system

I've been curious how full frame compares to m43 in IQ, dynamic range etc but I've never fancied lugging about a FF kit as the size and weight puts me off.
Recently a mate bought the Sony A7ii with a couple of Sony zooms. I was impressed with the body, very nice, small and compact, not much bigger than the EM1 if at all bigger. The 2 lenses were large compared to m43, he had a 16-35 f4.0 and 24-280 so equivalent to m43 7-14 (more or less) and 14-140, the lenses were much bigger and heavier.
However I was impressed and today bit the bullet and ordered the Sony A7ii and will order the 55mm f1.8 Ziess prime lens and see how I like it and consider more lens options after I've had a play.
The A7ii and 55mm lens both get stella reviews so I'm interested to see how it compares to my EM5 ii and m43 lenses. (I have the Lumix 25 f1.4 prime so that will be an excellent comparison).
It's not my intention to get rid of m43 but use the Sony setup for landscape and more close up stuff and use the m43 for telephoto work (the 40-150 Pro with TC and EM5ii). Also m43 will be my light travel kit, although depending what lenses I end up with for the A7ii if I use a few primes then it may not be very cumbersome.
Anyway I'm looking forward to playing about and seeing the results.
I like printing A2 size so I'm curious if I'll get better more detailed prints from the FF camera.


Paul
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

I've looked at the A7 lots of times and have many times got close to "pulling the trigger", as our gun-happy American cousins would say. I may still do, but what keeps stopping me is this:

- Whenever I do my job right, I'm very satisfied by the quality from u43. I've done large 30x20 canvas prints from E-M1 shots and the quality is superb.

- I really don't want two systems and building a Sony A7 kit to match my Olympus gear would likely set me back well over 6k. The problem is that the price of good Sony FE lenses is eye-watering. Compared to u43 or other FF systems (Canon, Nikon) they're maybe 1.5 - 2 times the price. Even the "budget" Sony (non-Zeiss) primes are 400 or more.

- In some ways they're not up to u43 in terms of handling or features - battery life, IBIS, frame rate, AF speed, focus bracketing, live composite etc

- Aside from a few wide/normal primes (28 and 35), the lenses get big and heavy. Compare the 16-35 f4 with the Panasonic 7-14 f4 or the 55 f1.8 with the Olympus 25 f1.8. There's a huge difference.

- Finally, I know that if I go pixel peeking then I'll find the A7 better (esp the A7rii - a steal at 2300), but will it actually deliver me better pictures for the majority of what I do? Would a purchase just be a GAS-induced slide into more gear and no real benefit?

I guess if I were doing lots of low-light, hand-held stuff, or maybe needed uber high resolution then it might be different, but as per my first point if I'm honest then u43 delivers for 95% of what I do. As for that last 5%, well, I'll just work on my technique or find another route (I'm looking at the Voigtlander 17.5 f0.95 right now - not cheap, but cheaper than an A7!).

Anyhow - just my random thoughts. I'm not trying to douse your enthusiasm or criticise your decision - in fact, I'm looking forward to seeing your images and getting your thoughts vs Olympus.
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  #3  
Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

I'm with Paul on this, Paul
Still, wouldn't say no and may well join you in the Sony camp later.
I much prefer having a "one system does all" setup - even though I still have my Canon gear.
Hopefully I will get to take a few shots with your new setup when you get back onshore.
You never know, you may change my mind

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Old 26th January 2016
Kiwi Paul
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Re: Buying into another system

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
- I really don't want two systems and building a Sony A7 kit to match my Olympus gear would likely set me back well over 6k. The problem is that the price of good Sony FE lenses is eye-watering. Compared to u43 or other FF systems (Canon, Nikon) they're maybe 1.5 - 2 times the price. Even the "budget" Sony (non-Zeiss) primes are 400 or more.
- In some ways they're not up to u43 in terms of handling or features - battery life, IBIS, frame rate, AF speed, focus bracketing, live composite etc

- Aside from a few wide/normal primes (28 and 35), the lenses get big and heavy. Compare the 16-35 f4 with the Panasonic 7-14 f4 or the 55 f1.8 with the Olympus 25 f1.8. There's a huge difference.

Yes I said the zooms are big, but I'm only going to be carrying one zoom and the 55mm 1.8 prime which is about the same size as the Pany 12-35, I'm not looking to be buying long zooms, as I said I'll keep m43 for that.

- Finally, I know that if I go pixel peeking then I'll find the A7 better (esp the A7rii - a steal at 2300), but will it actually deliver me better pictures for the majority of what I do? Would a purchase just be a GAS-induced slide into more gear and no real benefit?

I guess if I were doing lots of low-light, hand-held stuff, or maybe needed uber high resolution then it might be different, but as per my first point if I'm honest then u43 delivers for 95% of what I do. As for that last 5%, well, I'll just work on my technique or find another route (I'm looking at the Voigtlander 17.5 f0.95 right now - not cheap, but cheaper than an A7!).



Anyhow - just my random thoughts. I'm not trying to douse your enthusiasm or criticise your decision - in fact, I'm looking forward to seeing your images and getting your thoughts vs Olympus.
The prices are much the same, Oly 12-40 720, Sony 24-70 800, Oly 12 f2 550, Sony 28 F2 370, 40-150 F2.8 Pro 1100, Sony 70-200 1K, Oly 7-14 840, Sony 16-35 1K, and of course the Oly 300 F4 2200!! For that price you can buy the A7ii, and a couple of good primes or a good zoom.

Actually the tests I've read say the handling is very good, I've held one and like it, frame rate is slower but 5fps is plenty for me, the IBIS is meant to be excellent as is AF speed and the CAF is meant to be very good too.

Yes I said the zooms are big, but I'm only going to be carrying one zoom and the 55mm 1.8 prime which is about the same size as the Pany 12-35, I'm not looking to be buying long zooms, as I said I'll keep m43 for that. I may choose to go all primes in which case I only need 3, 20mm, 24mm and 55mm. You can also use all the Canon lenses with full auto focus etc using an adapter so the choice of lenses is unlimited.

I'm curious to find out, the reviews I read and I've read many have folk who have moved from m43 to the A7 system, who were very satisfied with m43 but found they preferred the Sony A7 system.
I'm not going pixel peeping either, I'm curious if when printing large the FF format gives better prints.


Paul
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

Paul (pdk42), If you think the price of a Sony FE lens is 'eye watering', have a look at the cost of a Leica M 50/f1.4, as an example
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

This will be an interesting comparison, especially if you print large. I'm looking forward to your conclusions.
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

Kiwi Paul, there's no doubt a FF file will impress you. As a retirement present I bought myself an M240 together with a 35mm/f2 ASPH (I'm a one lens shooter so far). The RAW files are so so malleable, if required, but in fact I'm finding I have to do so little in PP, to the extent I thought I was doing something wrong when I started processing the Leica files.
But let's give credit to the Olympus product, it does a very credible job for a fraction of the cost.
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Kiwi Paul, there's no doubt a FF file will impress you. As a retirement present I bought myself an M240 together with a 35mm/f2 ASPH (I'm a one lens shooter so far). The RAW files are so so malleable, if required, but in fact I'm finding I have to do so little in PP, to the extent I thought I was doing something wrong when I started processing the Leica files.
But let's give credit to the Olympus product, it does a very credible job for a fraction of the cost.
I'll soon find out, yes m43 is excellent, and I'm planning on keeping my m43 kit. The A7ii is pretty much the same price range as the top m43 bodies so I don't see where folk are getting the idea it's so expensive. The lenses are in the same ball park as equivalent m43 lenses too, there are some expensive ones but not all. You can buy the Canon adapter and then have access to all the Canon lenses too, new and old.

Paul
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Old 26th January 2016
Kiwi Paul
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Re: Buying into another system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Kiwi Paul, there's no doubt a FF file will impress you. As a retirement present I bought myself an M240 together with a 35mm/f2 ASPH (I'm a one lens shooter so far). The RAW files are so so malleable, if required, but in fact I'm finding I have to do so little in PP, to the extent I thought I was doing something wrong when I started processing the Leica files.
But let's give credit to the Olympus product, it does a very credible job for a fraction of the cost.
Holy moly, I see what you mean about the M240, it's not for the budget minded lol

Paul
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

I'll be interested to see how things work out. I recently bought a Nikon df, partly because it's about as compact as a FF dSLR can get (about the same size as the higher end E System cameras originally were) and also because it has such as fantastic sensor (16MP FF sensor from the D4 is giving some lovely results).

I tend to be a prime lens person most of the time, so I'm happy with a handful of relatively cheap and compact Nikkor AF-D lenses complete with aperture rings so I can use the camera the way I learned - aperture ring, shutter speed dial, etc...and I'm loving it.

But the big but is good quality zoom lenses, which are big and expensive for FF dSLRs. It's not a problem for me as I'm not planning on buying fast zooms, but if you're seriously into those then you'd need to be happy carrying some bulky lenses which aren't exactly discrete....
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Paul View Post
The prices are much the same
Hi Paul - you know, I didn't really believe you at first, but I did some checking of equivalent lenses to u43 lenses I already own. Using Amazon prices I can see that in fact there isn't a big difference - unless you go looking at the Zeiss Batis and Loxia lenses. Except for the small primes (28 and 35), they do tend to be bigger though. However, for a minimal kit, it's probably not a huge difference, particularly if you compare to the Oly Pro lenses which are all quite big.
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

I haven't really looked at the Sony, but I doubt that Sony or even Zeiss lenses would be that much better than the Olympus Pro range, which seem to be very highly regarded by all, including Zeiss!

The advantages, if there are any, will be from the larger size of the Sony sensor and its resolution. The Olympus 43 sensors are very good, but Sony has put a heck of a lot of development into the A7 sensor, which is very much bigger than 43.

I also understand that some landscape photographers are using Pentax and Mamiya medium format lenses on the Sony body.
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Olympus introduced a FF camera themselves. Unless, that is, there's a revolution in electronics allowing the smaller sensor to resolve photons as well as a larger FF sensor, if not it could end up in decline. But any developments in light measurement techniques will flow through to the 35mm FF as well, so everyone wins.
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

I have looked at the Sony A7R and A7R II as I would not see the point of such a large camera without all of the extra pisels.

I looked on Saturday at the A7RII and the FE90mm f2.8 macro lens which I was offered for 3250.
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Old 26th January 2016
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Re: Buying into another system

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Originally Posted by alfbranch View Post
I looked on Saturday at the A7RII and the FE90mm f2.8 macro lens which I was offered for 3250.
That seems an aweful lot more than an E-M1 and a 60mm Macro!
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