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Looking for improvement This is the e-group critique board. If you post a picture here it will be assumed that you are looking for comprehensive technical feedback - both good and bad, but always respectful. Only post pictures here if you can deal with potentially negative constructive criticism. Anyone is qualified to comment and post feedback, and everyone is encouraged to do so. NB: "Looking for Improvement" is the place to post any pictures you would like advice on improving, no matter how bad you might think they are.

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  #16  
Old 15th September 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

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Originally Posted by iso View Post
Dear oh dear you two - all very nice - but what did the actual scene look like
There was very little processing in the original set that I posted. The 'problem' with my original monochrome of the rust bucket was that it reflected the original colour rendition.

The fishing boat "Unnar" as you see in the colour image, was red and white; when subjected to straight conversion to monochrome, red looks dark grey, not black. If you look at the lettering (the reg number IS300) on that boat, there are white lines around the numbers. IMV, that is over-processing. The same effect is just starting to appear in my original processing, and I thought that was far enough to take it.

Unless you process them like Alf has, though, you wouldn't get anywhere in a club competition. I'm sure. (I don't do club competitions now!)
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  #17  
Old 20th September 2017
Mick_weed Mick_weed is offline
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

A lot of people might ask - when does digital photography cease to be about photography and instead become an exercise in computer manipulation !
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  #18  
Old 20th September 2017
Keith-369 Keith-369 is offline
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

Personally, and this is just MHO, apart from the very odd shot, I really can't see why all the interest in B&W. We all (well, most of us) see in colour, we understand colour and colour tells us so much about what we are actually seeing.

In B&W, the marks on the boat could be anything, dirt stains, worn through paint etc. (yes, I know it's unlikely but you know what I mean) but when you see the colour version, it all makes sense. Dirty marks are dirty marks, rust is rust, red is red etc. etc.

I'm sorry but I really can't get too excited about B&W pics. I left that all behind in the mid 60's. Give me colour anyday.

As I said, just my personal thoughts on Colour/B&W.
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  #19  
Old 21st September 2017
iso iso is offline
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

369 - Nah, there is something of gritty beauty in B/W. In it's correct place and according to the story it is telling.


(Hands up all those that Dream in Colour)....
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  #20  
Old 21st September 2017
Keith-369 Keith-369 is offline
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

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Originally Posted by iso View Post
369 - Nah, there is something of gritty beauty in B/W. In it's correct place and according to the story it is telling.


(Hands up all those that Dream in Colour)....
I hear you but for instance, in this particular case .... if you hadn't seen the colour version of that boat and there was no written description, then maybe you would have wondered if all those marks were dirt, which marks were dirt and which were 'possible' rust (don't forget, no-one said anything about the boat being rusty). In B&W only and with no other information, it could look as though the boat had been on fire and all those marks were soot marks. The boats hull, in B&W, looks as though it could be wood, like the upper part, so all those marks could very well be dirt.
Yes, I fully agree, B&W has its place and can benefit many pictures, but only where colour is not needed to tell the full story and where colour is unnecessary to the story.

Again, just MHO and we all have our own, thank goodness, or the world would be such a boring place
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  #21  
Old 27th September 2017
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

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Originally Posted by iso View Post
Dear oh dear you two - all very nice - but what did the actual scene look like
What does it actually matter what the scene actually looked like?
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I nice view does not mean a good photograph. My FLickr

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  #22  
Old 27th September 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

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Originally Posted by alfbranch View Post
What does it actually matter what the scene actually looked like?
A rather strange view, Alf (sorry!) Colour should represent the scene; how would you react to a scene of Flanders fields with blue poppies, for example? And would you want your views of the Lake District to have red heather and yellow tinged water?

I don't think you should really deviate far from the original scene. Monochrome is OK, but I still instinctively want it to represent what I saw, not what I can make it look like. Maybe that comes from so many years as a film (slide) user; and, yes, I could put filters on the lens, but unless the filter was pretty subtle, it usually looked a bit silly - and a judge would really slate it!

Generally, I don't modify the images I post on here very much at all. I do what I would have done with film: crop, darken a bit, lighten a bit, that sort of thing. Occasionally I go a lot further, but usually because I might want to remove something unwanted in the image, rather than make it look distinctly different. I'm sure I'm out of step with what (club) judges want to see today, but what the hell? If you look at the work of yesteryear's great artists, it rarely fits with today's rules and style for photography; but it's still great art.
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  #23  
Old 27th September 2017
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

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Originally Posted by alfbranch View Post
What does it actually matter what the scene actually looked like?
Alf - your comment could be interpreted in so many ways (from the profound to the ridiculous [not suggesting the latter], that it needs more explanation).
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  #24  
Old 3rd October 2017
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

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Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
A rather strange view, Alf (sorry!) Colour should represent the scene; how would you react to a scene of Flanders fields with blue poppies, for example? And would you want your views of the Lake District to have red heather and yellow tinged water?

I don't think you should really deviate far from the original scene. Monochrome is OK, but I still instinctively want it to represent what I saw, not what I can make it look like. Maybe that comes from so many years as a film (slide) user; and, yes, I could put filters on the lens, but unless the filter was pretty subtle, it usually looked a bit silly - and a judge would really slate it!

Generally, I don't modify the images I post on here very much at all. I do what I would have done with film: crop, darken a bit, lighten a bit, that sort of thing. Occasionally I go a lot further, but usually because I might want to remove something unwanted in the image, rather than make it look distinctly different. I'm sure I'm out of step with what (club) judges want to see today, but what the hell? If you look at the work of yesteryear's great artists, it rarely fits with today's rules and style for photography; but it's still great art.
If photography is an at form and not just a way of recording what we see then our images do not necessarily have to look like what was in front of us. Beware of allowing people to stifle your work.


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Alf - your comment could be interpreted in so many ways (from the profound to the ridiculous [not suggesting the latter], that it needs more explanation).
You interperate as you wish I am not going to cry (unless it is really funny to me at least)

Does this shot have a place or not?

Swinging in the sky 3 by Alf Branch, on Flickr

or how about this

Abondened den by Alf Branch, on Flickr
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  #25  
Old 3rd October 2017
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

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Originally Posted by Mick_weed View Post
A lot of people might ask - when does digital photography cease to be about photography and instead become an exercise in computer manipulation !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
Very good question Mick. My guess is the moment you take the photo.

What's even more surprising is the number of people who take 100's of photos but never print any, and never view them on a computer screen. They either view via the small phone screen or camera screen then store them on dozens of memory cards probably never to be seen again. To me, it's almost the same as taking 100's of rolls of film and never getting them processed. It's a very strange digital world now

John

Each to thier own is my opinion I have several film cameras and use them occasionally. Remember image manipulation is not new at all its been around as long as photography. So where does photography stop being a record and become art.
I suggest being more open minded about what people do and if you like it enjoy it however the result was achieved.
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I nice view does not mean a good photograph. My FLickr

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  #26  
Old 3rd October 2017
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfbranch View Post
If photography is an at form and not just a way of recording what we see then our images do not necessarily have to look like what was in front of us. Beware of allowing people to stifle your work.




You interperate as you wish I am not going to cry (unless it is really funny to me at least)

Does this shot have a place or not?

Swinging in the sky 3 by Alf Branch, on Flickr

or how about this

Abondened den by Alf Branch, on Flickr
They both have a place. Taking the second shot, the colours look as though you increased vibrance; I guess you sharpened it too. I can't say that it's a subject that does it for me, but each to his or her own. No 1 I think is more attractive; but is it not a record shot, too? I'm not sure where record shots end and art shots begin.

The same logic applies when competitions are judged, especially by club judges. Much depends on what each individual judge likes or dislikes, irrespective of technique, image quality, etc. I have seen a judge heavily mark down images in a club competition that actually won a 'highly commended' and a silver medal in international competition. I feel that entering club competitions has been damaging to my photography, and I no longer belong to a camera club. You talked about not being stifled by others; yes, I agree, but when I have put something in a club competition that was anything other than formulaic, I got heavily shot down by the judge. And, TBH, I don't like formulaic!

I'd also say that photography isn't an art form, it's a tool. You can use it to create something that you see as arty or whatever.; and it depends on the beholder whether it is seen as art or not. As we see on here.
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  #27  
Old 4th October 2017
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Re: Isafjordur harbour

Alf - I like both the pics you posted. Obviously there are two views here.(1) Photography as a 'Record'. (2) Photography is an 'Art Form'. I tend toward the former and believe that historically that was it's origins and purpose. So to my mind, both your pics could fall into 'Record'. Ok there has been some manipulation (Readers know my views on excessive PP...), But there is room for both ---- and maybe others will suggest even more definitions. It's all about preference, but I'll stick to Record.
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