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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #181  
Old 23rd February 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

A neighbour of mine went to Belgium today, just to buy some cheap tobacco (about 8 a pack in Belgium compared with 20 here).

It set me wondering how Brexit will affect these sort of trips, particularly if the swivel eyed loon hard Brexiteers get their way.

Jim
  #182  
Old 23rd February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
A neighbour of mine went to Belgium today, just to buy some cheap tobacco (about 8 a pack in Belgium compared with 20 here).

It set me wondering how Brexit will affect these sort of trips, particularly if the swivel eyed loon hard Brexiteers get their way.

Jim
Well thats a balanced response.
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  #183  
Old 24th February 2018
KeithL KeithL is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
So you don't like it when you lose and want to make up new rules to help you win.

Interesting this only happened after Brexit not when we joined the Common Market.

Please explain why ?
Given the insulting nature of your comment, I won't dignify it by responding.
  #184  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
Democracy is a myth ! It requires a democratic vote where the ones who do not obtain a majority are obliged to abide by and accept the decisions of those that did.

Brexit is indisputable proof that democracy is a fallacy

John
More to the point, John, is that whichever colour government we the ordinary voters elect, the real decisions are taken behind closed doors by unelected rich, influential people whom we probably don't even know, but collectively termed "The Establishment".

Remember the Profumo Affair? In the book "A Very British Affair", it is alleged, presumably with good reason, that the then Home Secretary, Norman Brooke (remember him?) ordered the Met to prevent Stephen Ward's witnesses from even entering the court. It is said that the Police physically stopped and threatened people who would have spoken for Ward at the door. Ward was obviously, if this allegation is true, a scapegoat for Establishment figures who didn't want their applecart upset. Think it's any different today?

I expect that there is a not dissimilar situation in other countries; but here we have long been kidded that we have a paragon of governmental democracy in Westminster. The other leg has a carillon attached, by the way...
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  #185  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
So you don't like it when you lose and want to make up new rules to help you win.

Interesting this only happened after Brexit not when we joined the Common Market.

Please explain why ?
Perhaps because the result of that 1975 referendum was 67 - 33, in other words a convincing victory for one side. Had the 2016 vote produced a similar result I am quite sure it would have been accepted with a lot less argument.
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  #186  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
Given the insulting nature of your comment, I won't dignify it by responding.
So let me understand, to call Brexiteers swivel eyed loons is OK then is it?

How is my comment insulting ?

The truth is you cant answer the basic question - Why
If vote goes the way you want - rules are OK. If not then rules must be changed
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Last edited by wornish; 24th February 2018 at 12:27 PM. Reason: typo
  #187  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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  #188  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
"The rabid, vindictive rage of Remainers now borders on the pathological"


Well worth reading

John
Given that they seem to have taken a bit time out between printing lies about Corbyn to invite a rabid American-born Brexiter to spout some opinions, I don't think I'll bother. The whole shenanigans is being rabble roused by foreign press moguls and financed by tax dodging billionaires for their own ends.

Always pro-tory, so not my sort of read, at one time the Telegraph was a decent paper with high journalistic standards. Not any more, not since the tax-dodging Barclay Brothers took over. I have a socialist acquaintance who used to write for them , but ceased when they took over.
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  #189  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

I'm afraid the Telegraph wants me to register before I can read that article, something I am not prepared to do!
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  #190  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Perhaps because the result of that 1975 referendum was 67 - 33, in other words a convincing victory for one side. Had the 2016 vote produced a similar result I am quite sure it would have been accepted with a lot less argument.
No real argument in-so-far it stops at the 1975 referendum. The big Q then, was to do with entering a single market trading group. This seemed like a simple question that required a simple answer?

Trading within this group, where the conditions of becoming a part of, were beneficial to all. Is it just be possible, that the 67% never seen a future that the 33% saw, a future that became the focus of this last referendum?

I thought the EEC was a simple solution to many of our, and other countries within the then EEC, regards resolving the existing trading issues?

Since moving into the enclosed world of the EU, many, possibly too many things have been added to the mix. Since joining, over the years have we not been duped from day one by all those who made the following ongoing decisions?

IMO: The original negotiations set any future talks by the majority of EU countries to feed the UK negotiators on a strict diet of ‘softly, softly, catchee monkey,’ where we were the monkey.

MT tried and won some concessions but as history proved, the diet had hardly been altered. The last attempt by DC, didn’t help. Neither did his back door exit strategy, which overturned the applecart resulting in having to follow through on an already made decision.

A decision to hold a referendum to come out of a ‘whatever?’ that we were never asked to join. To make a far reaching decision, full of untold future consequences, fed on lies, damn lies and manure.

Several months later, here we are, staggering in complete disarray down the wibbly-wobbly way being continually fed on the original diet of manure but with added MS and PHD connotations.

Just to add fuel to the fire – I still have some chestnuts left over – did the previous 66% get it wrong and the 33% get it right, in that we are where we are after being asked to vote on existing ruling and conditions?

My final Q/- Have the Leave voters got it wrong in an attempt to invoke the get out clause? Or have the Remain voters got it right to remain??? You can ask the audience or phone a friend.

Either way, all the political in-fighting doesn’t help you, me or the country as a whole. But it does help to blast off some steam.

For accurate advice on this riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; send a post-card addressed #10 you know where and to whom.
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  #191  
Old 24th February 2018
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Zuiko Zuiko is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
"The rabid, vindictive rage of Remainers now borders on the pathological"


Well worth reading

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/...-pathological/

John
Well, I'm a Remainer and I don't see myself as being in a rabid, vindictive rage with visceral hatred over Brexit. As for the attacks on Boris Johnson following his speech last week, I've seen some robust responses but nothing of the magnitude implied by reactionary Janet Daley, the author of this article. Jean-Claude Junker firmly defended himself against some of Johnson's opinions and fellow Tory Anna Soubry was typically forthright with this comment, Im afraid to say that Boris has confirmed my very worst fears about him. I dont think hes a very good Foreign Secretary. I think he has on a number of occasions broken collective responsibility. But I think today, he really has hugely lacked the sort of grown-up responsible, sensible approach that we expect from one of the most senior members of our cabinet in the approach to Brexit. It was a very poor, it was actually a pitiful speech and I think a lot of people found it really rather embarrassing.

Strong words, yes, but many would say fair comment and certainly not worthy of Daley's over-sensationalized diatribe. The Torygraph may be less patently ultra right-wing biased than the Daily Fail and more grown up than the Pun, but it is increasingly prone to publishing drivel well below the standards of responsible journalism we have a right to expect from a newspaper with a previously good reputation for accurate and balanced reporting.
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  #192  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
I'm afraid the Telegraph wants me to register before I can read that article, something I am not prepared to do!
I did take up their offer to register for free and read the article. I then clicked a link to another article and was promptly told my free trial had expired and I was invited to subscribe. Do they really expect me to pay to read such drivel?
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  #193  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

And now for something completely different... on a personal basis, some good news?

Today, my solar panels have excelled themselves.

They have produced eight (8) kWh which is better than this time last year and fast aproaching the February system all-time record. Seems the sun really has his hat on and come out to play.
As a boring advert keeps harping on... every little helps. Kerching!
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  #194  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
John ( Zuiko) as I have now removed the post as registration is apparently required to view the entire article, perhaps you would remove the link in your "quote" ?

John
John, I don't see the need to delete it as members can decide for themselves whether or not to register, as I did. I disagreed with the whole tone of the article, but did find it somewhat enlightening. Thanks for posting.

PS Off to subscribe to the Guardian now, it seems quality newspapers are in short supply.
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  #195  
Old 24th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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... Do they really expect me to pay to read such drivel?
Looking on a brighter side of the coin. The BBC, apparently pay their army of 'drivel spouters' around 250K pa., plus the drivel writers payment. We have no option but to accept all this and, with a threat to remove over 75's free TV, an option to 'click' to unsubscribe has to be the bargain of the century.
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