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-   -   Adobe LR - no more updates - options? (https://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=49762)

Tordan58 8th February 2019 03:06 PM

Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Hi

When in process of updating LR to be able to process G9 RW2 files I noticed that Adobe have declared that this will be the last version (unless you subscribe to CC, which I don't). I will hopefully "survive" for some time as the latest/last version of LR supports the RAW formats that I have in my library, however mid/long term I will probably have to do something about this.

What are the options, apart from having to subscribe to CC? Are there any alternatives to LR? Development settings and metadata/tags need to be preserved either importing the LR library and/or the sidecar files with metadata. My library contains 50k+ photos, all with precious user defined tags and development settings.

I should perhaps mention I, previous to LR, used DXO however dropped it as I disliked their licensing policy (they were forcing me to buy a Pro license to read E5 RAW files). Meaning I am not to eager to spend more money on their products.

Or should I concede and accept being billed monthly?

Thanks
Tord

pdk42 8th February 2019 03:25 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Just concede Tord. A few points:

- Software is expensive to develop. The market is littered with companies that went bust.

- If we want continuity then we need to make sure the provider can make money from it.

- Ongoing updates (new cameras, new features etc) are necessary and desirable.

- £10 a month is in reality not expensive. A few cups of Starbucks and certainly cheaper than film and processing.

- For the £10 you also get Photoshop, cloud storage, portfolio software a few other things.

alfbranch 8th February 2019 03:50 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdk42 (Post 471527)
Just concede Tord. A few points:

- Software is expensive to develop. The market is littered with companies that went bust.

- If we want continuity then we need to make sure the provider can make money from it.

- Ongoing updates (new cameras, new features etc) are necessary and desirable.

- £10 a month is in reality not expensive. A few cups of Starbucks and certainly cheaper than film and processing.

- For the £10 you also get Photoshop, cloud storage, portfolio software a few other things.


I agree with this

Ricoh 8th February 2019 04:08 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdk42 (Post 471527)
Just concede Tord. A few points:

- £10 a month is in reality not expensive... and certainly cheaper than film and processing.

= approx 1 roll of HP5 and lab processing, that's 36 shots a month and you can use any old s/w going, complete with DAM. That's my average over 12 months, more in spring, summer and autumn, less in winter.

Shaw 8th February 2019 04:13 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Yes, I also agree. About three pints of beer per month!!

AMc 8th February 2019 05:19 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
I bought the last standalone LR. It supports my current cameras but as I know it won’t forever I’m not investing much energy in the asset management features.
I appreciate that the CC plan is good value for money if you use it frequently but for me it doesn’t make financial sense.
I’d also suggest you look closely at the pricing which last time I looked was an annual contract billed monthly. A friend discovered that when he tried to save a few quid by cancelling for a couple of months and was presented with a bill for half a years use and his software inactivated. It was resolved in the end but it isn’t or wasn’t a monthly contract.

As far as alternatives go DXO is supposed to be good but you’ve been there already. I read about Darktable but haven’t tried it myself.
There are various freebie versions or trials of most prouducts.

Olympus have just launched A new free product but I’ve not looked at it from asset management myself. It seemed a better processing package but not really on a par with LR.

As others have said software development is expensive so youll have to pay one way or another if you want the latest and greatest features.

Pjphoto59 14th February 2019 12:44 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Until 2009 I did all my post processing on an old version of Photoshop.

Then I bought an EP-1, and found that the only way I could deal with the *.ORF files was to buy Lightroom 3. The old Photoshop could handle the *.ORF files from my E5 and E620. I thought ORF meant ORF, but it did not. Converting the files to DNG did not help either. With nearly 10 years of experience of Lightroom, and processing about 100 images a month, I am used to LR, but really I am committed to it because of the cataloguing system, which would be hard to replace.

I was forced on to Adobe CC a few months ago, and while I manage well enough with it, it is far from trouble free. For example after one update the CC Photoshop refused to connect to my printer. I fixed this by deleting PS 2018 and installing Ps 2017 instead, which works OK.

It has to work for me, but I cannot recommend it as the frequent updates are generally more trouble than they are worth. New CC updates only work with the latest computer operating system, so you may have to update that as well.

I do not think anyone has mentioned Affinity on this thread:

https://www.google.com/search?q=affi...hrome&ie=UTF-8

I have no personal experience of it, but it is not too expensive and may be worth a try.

Crazy Dave 14th February 2019 08:50 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
For what it’s worth. I browsed a copy of Amateur Photographer yesterday and Affinity Photo is their Product of the Year. I use Affinity after years with Photoshop, it’s more than good enough for me. Serif seem to be a vigorous company launching many of their products for iPad and I understand an update to Affinity Photo is in beta development and if history is anything to go by, will be free.

David

Olybirder 14th February 2019 09:14 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dave (Post 472091)
Serif seem to be a vigorous company launching many of their products for iPad and I understand an update to Affinity Photo is in beta development and if history is anything to go by, will be free.

I have been using the beta version for a few weeks now and it seems to work well. I even received an update for it the other day. Affinity Photo is very good and is excellent value for money but I still struggle a bit using it. I should really sit down and work my way through all the tutorial videos but life's too short. :)

Ron

Crazy Dave 14th February 2019 11:04 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Ron, the other bonus with Affinity is that their own videos are bite-sized. Often only 4-5 minutes long and delivered in a calm manner by a Brit. Completely unlike the ear-wrenching video’s from across the Pond that start with “Hi Guys” followed by crazy intro music.

I’m a total convert - good luck Affinity.

David

benvendetta 14th February 2019 12:03 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
I really like Affinity Photo but it is no LR. I did hear a while back that at some stage it would be upgraded to have LR-type attributes........but no sign yet. I would pay extra for this.
BTW, being an infrequent user of photo editing software, Adobe's subscription model is not attractive to me, which is why I went for AP last year. Adobe make too much money as it is. Most of my PS versions were........d*d*y :o
If I need PS CC, I have it on my work PC.

Wreckdiver 14th February 2019 07:38 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
I subscribe to LR & PS, costs £9.98 per month and the updates come in regularly, so I've always got the latest versions. It's the best solution I've had for PP/cataloguing/image management and well worth the small monthly cost for me.

Steve

Tordan58 15th February 2019 12:04 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I guess I will stay with LR and purchase a subscription once a camera to be released in future becomes in my posession.

Gate Keeper 15th February 2019 12:25 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Like some of the other members, I bought a standalone Adobe LR which I still use. In addition to this I also use the Skylum Products: Luminar and Aurora HDR. Luminar is currently offering 29% off the listed price and it runs monthly competitions with some very nice prizes. There is no monthly subscription.

The latest competition is a trip for 2 to Paris....https://skylum.com/blog/new-contest-skylum_couple

https://skylum.com/luminar

I agree with Paul, 9.98 GBP is not much to fork out each month in the scheme of things for an Adobe system. Good luck with whatever you decide on *chr

MJ224 15th February 2019 02:32 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wreckdiver (Post 472188)
I subscribe to LR & PS, costs £9.98 per month and the updates come in regularly, so I've always got the latest versions. It's the best solution I've had for PP/cataloguing/image management and well worth the small monthly cost for me.

Steve

I had an update yesterday, for the Classic version. So unsure why you are saying there are no more updates,,,,,,,,,,,:confused:

Tram 15th February 2019 06:59 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ224 (Post 472295)
I had an update yesterday, for the Classic version. So unsure why you are saying there are no more updates,,,,,,,,,,,:confused:

No more updates for the standalone version, last one was 6.14.

jdal 17th February 2019 07:04 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Has no-one mentioned using the free dng converter, which Adobe promote as providing backwards compatibility for new cameras.

jonesy 30th April 2019 11:50 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
I know this is an old thread but I am looking at options.
I really dont like subscription software, I want to carry on using the software if I can no longer afford the monthly fees.
I tried Affinity, and loved it, but it didnt do the cataloging that my Elements does. I contacted Serif and they are planning one but said there was no timescale or even no definitive plans as to what they would include in the catalogue, so I went in search of something else...

A friend asked if I had tried the ACDSee Photo Studio Ultimate... I was very wary as I had used the very early software way back when... but it seems to catalog, keyword etc. It also seems to process RAW files BETTER than my Elements (I only get limited tools in elements) and currently there is an option to buy a licence or go the subscription route) I have asked a question about whether they will still carry on with options to buy a licence and am waiting for a reply

Has anyone else used a recent version of this, and if so, do you have any opinions either way?

raichea 30th April 2019 02:57 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesy (Post 479676)
...
I really dont like subscription software,
...
I have asked a question about whether they will still carry on with options to buy a licence and am waiting for a reply

I'm with you on the subscription front.

Don't forget that just because a company might say they have no plans to remove the purchase option, that can change. You can only guarantee that you'll have the last version you actually bought.

And, actually, this isn't always true. I have a copy of Corel Paint Shop Pro version X that I bought as a download. Turns out that the download version, unlike the shrink-wrapped CD version, had to be activated after installation. I don't even recall doing that, I bought it so long ago.

I hardly use it any more but wanted to move it to a new computer only to discover that Corel no longer have the activation server running so I could not activate it. It took a very long and heated discussion with their support team to get them to grudgingly find a way to activate the software... I may have mentioned small claims court.

pault 30th April 2019 03:16 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Tracy, would "Olympus Workspace" be suitable for catalogueing?

DerekW 30th April 2019 03:52 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Software does not fall from heaven ready to run, it has to be designed, developed, tested, documented. Who is going to pay for it if the users does not, who is going to ensure that the software stays uptodate with the latest operating system.

I resent the fee that Adobe charge, but if it was a purchase model, you would still have to pay for new versions to handle new cameras, and coomputer operating systems.

The Adobe annual fee is far less than the money you would have spent on film and chemicals in the old world.

Jax 30th April 2019 04:12 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DerekW (Post 479692)
Software does not fall from heaven ready to run, it has to be designed, developed, tested, documented. Who is going to pay for it if the users does not, who is going to ensure that the software stays uptodate with the latest operating system.

I resent the fee that Adobe charge, but if it was a purchase model, you would still have to pay for new versions to handle new cameras, and coomputer operating systems.

The Adobe annual fee is far less than the money you would have spent on film and chemicals in the old world.

I still have a genuine 20 yr old version of Adobe Elements on disk that has worked on all Windows versions over the years. Whilst not comparable to modern versions, it was a free copy so definitely good value for money :)

Jax

Crazy Dave 30th April 2019 04:28 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaw (Post 471537)
Yes, I also agree. About three pints of beer per month!!

Where's your pub? Where I live a pint costs well over £4

David

jonesy 1st May 2019 09:18 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
I tend to upgrade my software every 3-4 years or so, or when people rave about this tool can do what I want etc. I understand fully that its expensive to develop, and that is why I will happily buy software... but on my schedule...
At work I use a CAD program for my job, and every year they push out new tools that not many people seem to use, but not repair any tools that don't work despite their customers repeatedly asking for them to be made usable, they seem to be purely focused on a profit for their shareholders, not making decent software anymore. I preferred my work software before they went subscription as we could make a choice as to whether we needed this years new tools... maybe I am old-fashioned, but thats me :)

I hope this doesnt come across as "snarky" its not meant to be at all... just my view on why I dont want subscriptionware

DerekW 7th May 2019 11:00 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
I rather like the subscription process (apart from the cost) as it brings to me new features without having to search for them, some recent perspective correction features have proved to be quite useful and have reduced the frequency of a diversion to Photoshop for the images.
Would I have bought a new version to get the feature - no
Do i use the new feature - yes

jdal 7th May 2019 11:17 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
One problem I have with this Adobe subscription/continuous upgrade thing is that the machine requirements for software are inexorably creeping up and my machine is just about at it's limits - I've maxed the memory and already have a Hybrid disk for the OS/Programs. An SSD disk is the only option left. So I've looked at Capture 1 as an alternative but it's nigh on £300, and there's no guarantee as to how it'll perform on my machine (I'd need to try out the trial). I pay £110 pa or something for Adobe, so it's about 3 years worth of Adobe for Capture 1. So long as Adobe (a) don't drop Classic LR and (b) don't suddenly up the charge to £20 a month (I've heard rumours) I'm beginning to think my best bet will be to get a new machine when things get unusable.

Ricoh 7th May 2019 01:07 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Surveys show that the grow areas in photography are mobile phones and instant (Instax). If sales of 'proper' cameras fall off as predicted (it's more than a prediction, it's actually happening) companies like Adobe will have no option but to raise subscriptions.
The simple way around the problem is to capture in JPEG, paying attention to getting it right in camera.
On this occasion I will keep my lips sealed and not talk about a sensible alternative.

jonesy 7th May 2019 01:17 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jdal (Post 480118)
One problem I have with this Adobe subscription/continuous upgrade thing is that the machine requirements for software are inexorably creeping up and my machine is just about at it's limits - I've maxed the memory and already have a Hybrid disk for the OS/Programs. An SSD disk is the only option left. So I've looked at Capture 1 as an alternative but it's nigh on £300, and there's no guarantee as to how it'll perform on my machine (I'd need to try out the trial). I pay £110 pa or something for Adobe, so it's about 3 years worth of Adobe for Capture 1. So long as Adobe (a) don't drop Classic LR and (b) don't suddenly up the charge to £20 a month (I've heard rumours) I'm beginning to think my best bet will be to get a new machine when things get unusable.

I just bought ACDSee Photo Studio Ultimate at a cost of just over £60 (I got 2 licences for that price too). It catalogues, and RAW developing and regular "photoshop" type processing too. I downloaded the trial, and someone from them contacted me later to see if I was happy with it, and undercut the web price by a further 15% . It is way more than the elements I am used to. It is a perpetual licence, and when I asked they had no plans to remove that type of licence.

They do run a referral system, but I dont know if thats a good thing or not :D

Tordan58 7th May 2019 02:17 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricoh (Post 480120)
Surveys show that the grow areas in photography are mobile phones and instant (Instax). If sales of 'proper' cameras fall off as predicted (it's more than a prediction, it's actually happening) companies like Adobe will have no option but to raise subscriptions.
The simple way around the problem is to capture in JPEG, paying attention to getting it right in camera.
On this occasion I will keep my lips sealed and not talk about a sensible alternative.

I am inclined to agree on the first part, but have disagree on the second. The workflow involves processing (cropping, exposure, tonal curve, white balance etc) then tagging to ease managing large amounts of photos and finally developing (exporting to various formats using various settings) which has nothing to do with source format (JPG or RAW/ORF).

jdal 7th May 2019 04:23 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesy (Post 480121)
… It catalogues, and RAW developing and regular "photoshop" type processing too. ...

Does that cataloguing include hierarchical keywords? That's a deal-breaker for me.

***update **** Forget that question, I'm having a shot at the trial.

***update of update *** Performance is no better on my machine than Lightroom, runs something in the background that uses masses of power (i.e processor intensive), when the app itself isn't running. Import of LR stuff seemed good, but machine rebooted half way through, no idea why. Didn't like the way it handled selecting by keywords. A shame, it looks a good bit of software and well worth the money. I think if I hadn't gotten so used to LR and had a more powerful machine, I'd likely use it.

jonesy 8th May 2019 08:48 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jdal (Post 480129)
Performance is no better on my machine than Lightroom, runs something in the background that uses masses of power (i.e processor intensive), when the app itself isn't running. Import of LR stuff seemed good, but machine rebooted half way through, no idea why. Didn't like the way it handled selecting by keywords. A shame, it looks a good bit of software and well worth the money. I think if I hadn't gotten so used to LR and had a more powerful machine, I'd likely use it.

I'm lucky as I was just looking for something of an upgrade to Elements. The RAW processing is far superior to what I have used before, and as I was watching all the youtube videos about RAW they all seemed to have the lightroom version with gradients and other stuff I didnt have, so I realised I had only half the tools in the toolbox.
I think I still have a LOT to learn about the catalog and keywords, I used Elements in its basic form, merely using the star rating to shortlist the images I thought worthy of processing, so I really need to refine all of this workflow now I am becoming more involved in my photography again.

I think I have found what it is that runs in the background. I have turned off face recognition and now my computer is running nicely... so thanks I just assumed all of this type of software was memory hungry :)

SCoastPhotographer 9th May 2019 07:21 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
The subscription model is fine for as long as you keep paying; if you stop, you have nothing. I dislike being forced to a subscription by Adobe in future if I want my paid for version of LR to be updated. I am currently looking at a few software packages that you buy with a one off payment. I'm also interested in others' alternative software they are using.

drmarkf 9th May 2019 10:21 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Iíve used Capture One for the past 12 years, with Photoshop Elements used very occasionally when I need to move pixels round more seriously. I use Nik Silver eFex, Viveza, Color eFex and HDR eFex quite often in stand-alone mode.

I have an old standalone copy of Lr 6 that I only use to apply paper profiles when sending files to theprintspace.com for printing.

Finally, I got a lifetime copy of Affinity a while ago for the princely sum of £24 on an offer, that Iím planning to use first for some creative image stacking.

So far Iíve never found anything I wanted to do that I canít do adequately with that lot. CO Pro now occupies a functional space somewhere between Lr and Ps: Iím on the standard purchase program, which works out roughly the same as an Adobe CC licence per year, but you get to keep the software should you decide not to pay to update, so youíre not held over a barrel.

chorleyjeff 10th May 2019 08:01 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pjphoto59 (Post 472083)
Until 2009 I did all my post processing on an old version of Photoshop.

Then I bought an EP-1, and found that the only way I could deal with the *.ORF files was to buy Lightroom 3. The old Photoshop could handle the *.ORF files from my E5 and E620. I thought ORF meant ORF, but it did not. Converting the files to DNG did not help either. With nearly 10 years of experience of Lightroom, and processing about 100 images a month, I am used to LR, but really I am committed to it because of the cataloguing system, which would be hard to replace.

I was forced on to Adobe CC a few months ago, and while I manage well enough with it, it is far from trouble free. For example after one update the CC Photoshop refused to connect to my printer. I fixed this by deleting PS 2018 and installing Ps 2017 instead, which works OK.

It has to work for me, but I cannot recommend it as the frequent updates are generally more trouble than they are worth. New CC updates only work with the latest computer operating system, so you may have to update that as well.

I do not think anyone has mentioned Affinity on this thread:

https://www.google.com/search?q=affi...hrome&ie=UTF-8

I have no personal experience of it, but it is not too expensive and may be worth a try.

Free DNG converter converts raw files to DNG format which can be used on old LR or PS versions. I use it. A bit of a faff but it works.
I have bought Affinity with, so far, free updates but will that be the case when version 2 arrives ? Seems very powerful but full of features I shall never use.

Otto 10th May 2019 09:25 AM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
This is not about photo software per se but an alternative to a subscription model or one-off payments. I use some cataloguing products from Collectorz.com (for books and CDs) which you can buy once for a reasonable fee which includes all updates for one year. Thereafter if you wish you can buy update plans either as a monthly charge or one-off payments for a period of time e.g. three months. The software is regularly updated but unless you're a "power user" you don't necessarily need all the updates. If a significantly better version comes out I'll buy say a three month plan which gives me the latest version plus updates for that period (a big update usually has a few bugs like a new version of any software). It works for me, doesn't require a monthly payment, and I can continue to use the software until a point where I decide the new features are going to be useful.

Tordan58 10th May 2019 12:36 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Hi,

The issues related to changing SW are related to metadata.
  1. Development settings. For 95% of the photos I take I will have custom development settings. Cropping, rotation, tonal curve/black and white points. Sometimes white balance, when needed noise reduction and masking.
  2. Tags. 99% of my photos are tagged with a scheme that allows to find and filter out places, events, people, dates and even camera gear used.

Changing SW is a no-no unless there is support to migrate all that metadata, which has taken quite some time to create.

Being forced to a subscription pricing model? As someone else wrote, the day you stop paying you are left with... nothing.

I fully understand SW comes at a cost and am prepared to pay for it (and do so already today), however I want to make the call myself purchasing a new version of the SW, driven for instance by the support for a specific camera model which did not exist in the version I have been using.

I hate being locked in and forced to subscribe.

raichea 10th May 2019 04:17 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
You don't lose all function if you stop your subscription - only the Develop and Map modules stop working:

https://lightroomkillertips.com/happ...-subscription/

There is confirmation of this on the Adobe site but I haven't found it stated so succinctly.

Tordan58 20th May 2019 02:43 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Thanks for the information. Still, I believe that being able to develop one's photos is rather critical...

raichea 20th May 2019 03:35 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
Of course, but if you decide to stop paying the subscription then you'd have made the decision to move to a new software package for editing.

The important thing is that you don't lose access to all your previous work.

AMc 20th May 2019 03:40 PM

Re: Adobe LR - no more updates - options?
 
AIUI You can still export from the Library without a subscription, you can't go back and tweak in Develop.
Anything new you'd need to look elsewhere.


The lock in is one of the reasons I chose to stick with the final version 6 standalone.


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