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-   -   Nikon and Canon pursue more competition. (https://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2801)

dennisg 28th August 2008 08:54 PM

Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
To All,

In the past several days I have read on CNet.com and PC World that Nikon has just released a new DSLR, N90 with some pretty good specs and price points here in the US.

The camera has a 12.3 APS-C sensor, can shoot at 4.5 FPS, and has a HD video capability at 24 FPS and at 1280x720 HD resolution-720P. The rear screen can shoot in a Live View Mode and the resolution of the screen is 920,000 pixels.

The price point is $999.95 for the body and $1299.95 with the kit lens which has image stabilization in it.

So based on these specs and price points, Olympus has its work cut out for themselves considering the E-3 does not sport a lot of these specs and that the Micro 4/3 models will contain live video but have less capability. I have an E-500 and E-520 and a host of lenses. If Olympus is going to compete on specifications, e.g. memgapixels, they will have to find a way to get more pixels on the 4/3 chip while improving the output quality. They might have to go with a Sigma based chip, Froen, and layer the Blue, Red, and Green sites to afford better management of the space available on the 4/3 factor.

Does anyone have any comments on this? I have established my rig-equipment on the Olympus 4/3 model, but the price for the N90 surely seems to have more of a bite than the E-3 for hundreds more. Where do you see this all going for Olympus and the enduser?

Thanks,

Dennis G:rolleyes:

PeterD 28th August 2008 09:14 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisg (Post 23358)
To All,

In the past several days I have read on CNet.com and PC World that Nikon has just released a new DSLR, N90 with some pretty good specs and price points here in the US.

The camera has a 12.3 APS-C sensor, can shoot at 4.5 FPS, and has a HD video capability at 24 FPS and at 1280x720 HD resolution-720P. The rear screen can shoot in a Live View Mode and the resolution of the screen is 920,000 pixels.

The price point is $999.95 for the body and $1299.95 with the kit lens which has image stabilization in it.

So based on these specs and price points, Olympus has its work cut out for themselves considering the E-3 does not sport a lot of these specs and that the Micro 4/3 models will contain live video but have less capability. I have an E-500 and E-520 and a host of lenses. If Olympus is going to compete on specifications, e.g. memgapixels, they will have to find a way to get more pixels on the 4/3 chip while improving the output quality. They might have to go with a Sigma based chip, Froen, and layer the Blue, Red, and Green sites to afford better management of the space available on the 4/3 factor.

Does anyone have any comments on this? I have established my rig-equipment on the Olympus 4/3 model, but the price for the N90 surely seems to have more of a bite than the E-3 for hundreds more. Where do you see this all going for Olympus and the enduser?

Thanks,

Dennis G:rolleyes:

Hi Dennis,

Did you mean D90?

Link here http://www.pcworld.com/article/15039...vie_clips.html

Peter

dennisg 28th August 2008 09:17 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Yes I did. Another Typo. This is going to put extreme pressure on Olympus to up the features and improve the output.

Can they do it?

PeterD 28th August 2008 09:34 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisg (Post 23361)
Yes I did. Another Typo. This is going to put extreme pressure on Olympus to up the features and improve the output.

Can they do it?

Thanks Dennis. I shall read the articles.

Cheers

PeterD

PeterD 28th August 2008 09:39 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Link to Nikon specs below:

http://imaging.nikon.com/products/im.../d90/index.htm

Peter

Fluffy 28th August 2008 09:51 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
I don't think it'll put much much pressure on Olympus at all, except maybe in price and they'll lower the E-3 price another $100 or 200.

Olympus owner typically don't buy on specs; they buy on what the camera feels like and can do for them. Canon competes with Nikon and they're going to probably feel a lot of pressure. Olympus has a wonderful niche product, and probably no plans for moving up.

Again, look at the computer industry. There are Windows PCs that outspec virtually all Macs; more of everything with faster rated speeds. However, Apple does very well, and probably has more cash in the bank than any individual PC company. Plus their niche has expanded a bit in the last few years. Olympus isn't a company at all like Apple, but their camera division seems to work along roughly the same philosophical lines.

Steve

dennisg 28th August 2008 10:10 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Yes I agree, BUT let's go back to the '70s when the SLR market grew from viewfinder models. We had Nikormat, Practica, Canon, Nikon, Bell and Howell, Yashica, Pentex, Minolta, Olympus, Sigma and others. As we know it now, a lot of these no longer exist and Olympus took a hyatus for a while also.

Olympus was always a compact version of the SLR and many users really appreciated that and the performance as well. Their lens quality was and still is second to none. But the others who remain also have the same attributes!

So like in the seventies, the late '90s and the first decade of the twenty first century may see the same shake out. Who the market will shake out is up for grabs and opinions. My only concern is that with the stakes being raised ever more frequently, short obsolecense, the time to regroup gets harder and harder. So for next few years it will be interesting to see who will survive, what niches these manufacturers satisfy, and how we as the end customer will fair if any of these companies cease to make DSLRs.

It is dejavu all over again in the camera market. As far as computers, they are also having issues with speed, size, and performance. Most importantly price. Hopefully we all fair well by our decisions that we make when we decide to buy.

Dennis G*chr

Jim Ford 28th August 2008 10:30 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
I can't see that's it's got an articulating screen.

Since I bought my E3 about 9 months ago I'm finding I'm using the articulating screen with live-view more and more for macro photography. I've managed to take shots of wild flowers that would have been totally impossible without it. I don't think I'd buy a camera without this feature now

Jim

dennisg 28th August 2008 10:36 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Well that is the "Voice of The Customer". If these testimonials are made available to most in the marketplace, then Olympus will have something to brag about and can use it to leverage the brand. It is in the branding that we come to associate quality, delivery, and price.

PeterD 28th August 2008 11:11 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Well, I have read through the spec and have to conclude that I shall be sticking with the E3. Like all camera specs these days its a case of swings and roundabouts, there are some nice features but also some ommisions compared with the E3. I guess the price might sway some. The market place has changed considerably since the 1970's with a much greater customer base. I think there's plenty of room today for the existing manufacturers to offer their own models competitively. The E3 is just 1 year old and soon the R&D costs will have been recovered giving Olympus the opportunity to respond with a price cut if this is what is needed.

Peter

dennisg 28th August 2008 11:50 PM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
We'll be watching! Have a great weekend!

Zuiko 29th August 2008 12:21 AM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Sorry, apart from video capability, in what way can the D90 trouble the E3? In fact, the D90 has these drawbacks:

No articulated screen

No mention of weatherproof construction

No in-body IS

Only 4.5 frames per second

Viewfinder only 95% accurate

Only 12.3 mp - which need substantial cropping to achieve a comfortable image ratio.

Too expensive to compete directly with E520 - against which it might have a chance.

dennisg 29th August 2008 12:45 AM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
The lens, kit lens, has built in stabilization capabilty although this makes the lens heavier and more expensive. The 12.3 Megapixel size can be overcome by cropping properly in the view finder. I found that whe I went from the typical 2:3 in 35 mm to the 4:3 in the 4/3s I had to make some adjustments as well. The delta between 4.5 and 5.0 Fps is minimal also.

The difference here is that when the price point and options are reviewed, it will be certainly easier to convince someone buying an upgrade to buy the Nikon for $1299 American vs buying the E-3 for $1600 American. The water proofing is a good thing but in the 30 plus years that I shot frames I have been through a lot of undersirable situations and never had a rig fail. So unless you take a lot of nature-beach scenes, I just wonder how much of that is really critical in making a choice. Sometimes some precautions can go a long way.

My feeling is that Olympus is going to get off it's seat and will start to push the envelope too. The cost for components should decrease as more of these will be used in the futher change to digital photography. Thus maybe Olympus will use this as leasons learned and meet the challenge.

Last the HD streaming, well I cannot say anything on that, but is sure seems to be a nice addition and none of the Oly rigs have it. We do know the the micro 4/3 rigs will. But will they be up to the same quality? I don't know.

So here we are in a very exciting situation where the technology and capabilities are turning over more than two to three times per year. Where when we shot with 35 mm we were lucky to see one turn every year. Is this good or bad for the consumer? It will depend on what the offerings are, what the price point is, and how much the consumer wants to take out of their pockets.

So far I am very satisfied with the E520 over my E500, but I would really like to see the Dynamic Range upped at least 1 stop. This will certainly improve the overall performance and really take photography to a differnt level.

Stay tuned!

Dennis G

PeterD 29th August 2008 03:53 AM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Dennis,

I have to agree your point re frame rate. Weatherproofing I think is important as I have used the E3 in lousy, rainy conditions (with the 12-60 lens attached of course). The E500 stays in its weather proof bag in these conditions. I personally would not trust things to luck.
More Megapixels - yes Ok but for me that's not important. The HD video is nice but, not a necessity. These are some of the reasons I said that I would stick with the E3.
I think we are perhaps entering into a dangerous phase for camera manufacturers. Remember the mobile phone problems. I think it would be wiser to improve on camera functions than try and introduce new functionality that a designer thinks the public would want. Let others test the market and see what the take-up is. Oly deliberately are trying to break into the Pro market with the E3 and I think they are succeeding. The in-body IS was a major step forward, weatherproofing was another etc. Improvements on the functionality are still there to be had like the dynamic range, 16 bit image processing, location identification where an image is taken etc. I think Oly are more than ready to take up the challenges. Look at the swift releases on E510, E520 etc. Each revision provided significant improvements over its predecessor.
As you say, interesting times.

Cheers
Peter

blu-by-u 29th August 2008 04:47 AM

Re: Nikon and Canon pursue more competition.
 
Just wondering how the AF's gonna work in video mode? then there is the WB, aperture and all the other stuff that's needed to make video..but that can and would be seen viable in the micro FourThird (mFT). P&S have always thrive on providing video capabilities and when the mFt really kicks off.. :D


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