Olympus UK E-System User Group

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-   The lounge (https://e-group.uk.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Web v Print (https://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40165)

Grumpy Hec 15th November 2015 08:02 PM

Web v Print
 
I recently posted an image, http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40087, which is something I rarely do these days for reasons I will not go into now.

One thing which it has reminded me of is the huge limitations of viewing online as compared to a well produced print. When I look at this on my fully calibrated screen and compare to the print I have done which is part of my CPAGB submission, to be scored in a couple of weeks, the difference is enormous.

This is of course no earth shattering revelation and not something many forumeers will find especially enlightening as they are already well aware I'm sure. However when you look at a JPEG off a forum or Fickr or any other online source for that matter alongside the same image well printed it is a good reminder of how little compares to a print in the hand (or should that be on the wall).

Hec

Ricoh 15th November 2015 08:44 PM

Re: Web v Print
 
That's a great image, in print even better I'm sure.
What printer do you use? I ask as I'm on the look out for a compitent B/W printer - colour is not important to me and I wouldn't want to compromise B/W just for the sake of an occasional colour print.
Thanks.

Grumpy Hec 15th November 2015 09:39 PM

Re: Web v Print
 
I use an Epson R3000. I'm not sure it's still available but you can be certain it's replacement is at least as good.

Hec

Ricoh 15th November 2015 09:46 PM

Re: Web v Print
 
Thanks, I'll check it out.

Grumpy Hec 15th November 2015 09:57 PM

Re: Web v Print
 
If you do go down the print route be prepared for a hit on the wallet, a steep learning curve but a massive sense of satisfaction at completing the image making process.

Good luck* yes

Hec

Bikie John 15th November 2015 11:31 PM

Re: Web v Print
 
The replacement for the R3000 is the SC-P600. My old R2400 (at least two generations older than Hec's R3000) recently gave up the ghost and I have just replaced it with an SC-P600. I had a chat to Fotospeed who are pretty knowledgeable about this stuff, the guy there said he didn't really know why they had changed it as the SC-P600 is not really significantly better than the R3000. He also said they seemed to be pretty reliable.

John

IanB 16th November 2015 01:41 AM

Re: Web v Print
 
the worst thing we can use in serious photography IMO is a glossy screen and it's even worse if that screen is part of laptop.

You have raised a great point Hec. One thing no one considers is how we read the file colours, the black/white and greys when editing. This is even a bigger problem for the new to photography and a perfectly calibrated screen makes sweet bugga all difference to them.

How many times have we seen someone post a photo with an incorrect colour cast that they only see when it is pointed out to them; or we post a correct photo for them to compare. If they cannot see it then their screen is off colour

To be totally honest; I have only even visually calibrated my screens with print photos and digital images supplied by a fuji photo lab. And when I received an off colour photo from a lab it was mainly because I had not seen the incorrect colour when I was editing. However most clients would never see the incorrect colour until I showed them two printed photos side by side.

So what does all this mean when viewing photos on forums? IMO we need to allow some leeway as we all have different screens, varying experience.

As for printing photos at home; I gave up years ago. The 'prolabs' are better equipped than I can be. However I do need to have my screen as close as possible to how the printed photo will look and compared to most screens that is rather flat. I have been caught with "why doesn't it look as bright as you showed me on the computer?"

IMO there are too many variables with most laptop screens. And many are not in a light controlled room when viewing/editing photos. Combine the two and it makes serious and perfect editing near impossible.

For those who don't know what a light controlled room is: Not too much or any natural light coming through doors or windows; pretty curtains are not really an option; good consistent daylight fluro tube lighting; no TV ............. getting rather bland isn't it? But apart from using a monitor instead of the glossy laptop screen I don't do any of that as I now don't take or need to take photography too seriously. Are my posted photos that far off colour/density? Please tell me if so!

I had a big leg up with colour understandings as we owned a mini lab years ago, and I attend a lot of pro workshops. BTW; the girls are better with colours than most bloke ;) Really wish I was able to attend pro w/shops about editing; I'm mostly self taught :(

Kiwi Paul 16th November 2015 08:56 AM

Re: Web v Print
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy Hec (Post 366316)
If you do go down the print route be prepared for a hit on the wallet, a steep learning curve but a massive sense of satisfaction at completing the image making process.

Good luck* yes

Hec

I agree, the initial purchase of a printer and consumables can hit the wallet, after the initial purchase whether it is more cost effective to print your own or get a lab to print I'm not sure, and I don't care. I love printing my own, I like being in control of the whole process and I always use soft proofing on LR to ensure the print is identical to the screen. I've recently purchased the P800 A2 printer which also has a roll feed for printing panoramas or longer photos and I'm loving printing large size prints, it really is very satisfying.
I often frame and hang the prints on my walls, rotating them with new prints regularly so as not to get bored with the same stuff.

Paul

Kiwi Paul 16th November 2015 09:03 AM

Re: Web v Print
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IanB (Post 366334)
the worst thing we can use in serious photography IMO is a glossy screen and it's even worse if that screen is part of laptop. :(

I don't necessarily agree there, I do agree a mat screen is preferable but I've recently bought the Dell UP2715K monitor, a very good wide gamut monitor with 5K resolution, it has a glossy screen but it provides stunning viewing, with excellent colours and detail, the only issue that can affect it is reflections on the screen but I have my room setup in such a way it's not a problem, however I would have preferred it to have a non reflective mat screen had I had a choice.

Paul

Zuiko 16th November 2015 09:05 AM

Re: Web v Print
 
I still think the very best way to view a photograph is as a medium format transparency in a black card mount on a light box. I'm sure that large format looks better still! :)

Naughty Nigel 16th November 2015 10:47 AM

Re: Web v Print
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuiko (Post 366357)
I still think the very best way to view a photograph is as a medium format transparency in a black card mount on a light box. I'm sure that large format looks better still! :)

Oh yes! *yes

I received a package from Peak Imaging on Friday containing five rolls of developed Velvia that I had run through my 'new' RZ67 Pro II. The results are just amazing!

However, it's not just photographs that look different on paper; text does too.

I write a lot of technical reports in my day job, which must be accurate and not be easily misconstrued. I have plenty of experience of doing this, and have an excellent 27" monitor on my desk, but I still read things differently on paper, and find mistakes on paper that I simply do not see on the screen.

I do also use a laptop quite a lot, but I find that I write differently when sitting in an armchair or on a train to sitting at my desk.

Ricoh 16th November 2015 11:35 AM

Re: Web v Print
 
It's worse still when using an iPad, especially with auto correct. We think we have a clear window of reality, but it's simply an illusion.

Naughty Nigel 16th November 2015 03:27 PM

Re: Web v Print
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricoh (Post 366377)
It's worse still when using an iPad, especially with auto correct. We think we have a clear window of reality, but it's simply an illusion.

Very true. And of course it is easy for Autocorrect to insert a correctly spelt, but incorrect word into a sentence that either causes confusion or renders it completely meaningless.

A choir director friend had been discussing wedding music with a couple who were to be married, and had played through the tunes on the organ. The bride to be then asked him to text the titles to her so she could listen to them with her mother.

Unfortunately, one of the titles, Caesar Frank's Panis Angelicus was renamed by Autocorrect to what it thought the word 'Panis' should have been!

Thankfully both bride and mother were broad minded, and thought it was hilarious. Just as well they didn't have it printed on the Order of Service. :D

Jim Ford 16th November 2015 04:34 PM

Re: Web v Print
 
A screen can produce a far greater range of tones than paper. This is particularly true of the lightest parts of the image, where the brightest white is limited by the paper.

Jim

Naughty Nigel 16th November 2015 05:11 PM

Re: Web v Print
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Ford (Post 366409)
A screen can produce a far greater range of tones than paper. This is particularly true of the lightest parts of the image, where the brightest white is limited by the paper.

Jim

That may be true, but whichever way you look at it you can never fully appreciate the quality of an image (or of text) on screen.

A two megapixel image looks fine on a 27" screen, but if printed onto paper of the same size would be very disappointing indeed.

I print a lot of documents on a HP colour laser printer, which doesn't provide the definition or subtlety of a proper photographic printer, but in many cases it provides perfectly acceptable prints, provided you don't' need an extended tonal range and don't mind plenty of contrast!


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