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-   -   Salt & Vinegar? (https://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48909)

Harold Gough 5th October 2018 06:29 AM

Salt & Vinegar?
 
https://www.grahamcluley.com/china-a...-motherboards/

Harold

TimP 5th October 2018 06:43 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
I’ve been reading about this elsewhere and am not at all surprised. I don’t know how anyone would be supposed to know what each and every chip on even a small motherboard does, let alone something not much bigger than a pin head on a huge rack mount motherboard. The only way you’d know anything was up would probably be if you had a network packet sniffer monitoring all network traffic to/from the device.
So, not surprised and would expect more revelations to come.

Naughty Nigel 5th October 2018 07:01 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459271)
Iíve been reading about this elsewhere and am not at all surprised. I donít know how anyone would be supposed to know what each and every chip on even a small motherboard does, let alone something not much bigger than a pin head on a huge rack mount motherboard. The only way youíd know anything was up would probably be if you had a network packet sniffer monitoring all network traffic to/from the device.
So, not surprised and would expect more revelations to come.

The US government has already banned the use of Huawei 4G dongles by government employees because they have reason to believe there is a risk of interception.

We are now reaping what we have collectively sown by putting all our eggs in one cheap supply chain, by putting shot term profit above national security and the welfare of our own people who could be making these components.

The irony is that if China disrupts Amazon's or Apple's supply chain they will be shooting themselves in both feet. There isn't much that either of these organisations sell that doesn't originate from China!

TimP 5th October 2018 07:14 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Yep, short term profit, short term gains then sod the rest!

It’s not a new thing though, I remember joking back in the late 70s / early 80s that if you looked at the place of manufacturing printed on every IC you’d be reading a list of the sweat shops of the third world, yet here they were making millions of 74xx and 4000 series cmos chips. So 40 years worth! Jeez, how time flies! Sadly, I can no longer read such tiny writing and can’t remember the last time I saw an IC in anger. I used to repair down to chip level, now you just chuck everything away when it breaks.

Naughty Nigel 5th October 2018 10:06 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459276)
Sadly, I can no longer read such tiny writing and canít remember the last time I saw an IC in anger. I used to repair down to chip level, now you just chuck everything away when it breaks.

....And that is why I find modern electronics so boring.

But if China declared war on the west we would be comprehensively gu99ered because without Chinese components would could make virtually nothing unless it had thermionic valves in, and even then we would be reliant on the Russians. :(

But I daresay the bottom line of the spredsheet looks better for it. :mad:

TimP 5th October 2018 10:25 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
But surely there’s nothing you can’t with an OC72?

TimP 5th October 2018 10:27 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel (Post 459298)
....And that is why I find modern electronics so boring.

But if China declared war on the west we would be comprehensively gu99ered because without Chinese components would could make virtually nothing unless it had thermionic valves in, and even then we would be reliant on the Russians. :(

But I daresay the bottom line of the spredsheet looks better for it. :mad:

Do people even use scopes any more? Would a Uni student studying some electronics course even know what one was? (I genuinely have no idea)

But youíre right, itís all the bottom line that matters, how short sighted is that.

Naughty Nigel 5th October 2018 10:36 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459300)
But surely thereís nothing you canít with an OC72?

... Or an ECC83 and EL84. :D

The BC109 was a lot more stable than an OC72 though, and was much more difficult to destroy.

Naughty Nigel 5th October 2018 10:56 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459302)
Do people even use scopes any more? Would a Uni student studying some electronics course even know what one was? (I genuinely have no idea)

But youíre right, itís all the bottom line that matters, how short sighted is that.

I think they do still use 'scopes, but they don't have big, long CRT displays like my Tektronix and they don't glow in the dark or keep the workshop warm in winter. Modern scopes probably run from a pair of AA cells and have airy fairy LCD screens with storage so they can replay events. Boooring. :(

Jim Ford 5th October 2018 11:07 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimP (Post 459300)
But surely thereís nothing you canít with an OC72?

You can do more with an OC71! You can scrape the paint off it, turning it into an OC70 for light sensitivity.

Jim

TimP 5th October 2018 11:32 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel (Post 459307)
... Or an ECC83 and EL84. :D

The BC109 was a lot more stable than an OC72 though, and was much more difficult to destroy.

Surely the BC109 was a much later design that the OC72. I bet Iíve got loads of the things somewhere. BC184 rings a bell too, along with a whole bunch of 2N3055s, both PNP and NPN!

Ah, memories.
Talking of which, didnít you take the OC72 out of its aluminium case / tube and use it as a light dependent something or other??

TimP 5th October 2018 11:33 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Ford (Post 459312)
You can do more with an OC71! You can scrape the paint off it, turning it into an OC70 for light sensitivity.

Jim

Thanks Jim, see my other post where Iíd remember just this, but truly hadnít read your post at that point!

OM USer 5th October 2018 11:48 AM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
You would not need a specialist IC chip to hack a computer. All it would take would be a few lines of microcode embedded in an existing chip.

I remember the BC109 - a new fangled version of the BC108 and BC107 before it.

TimP 5th October 2018 12:09 PM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
And then there was the BF110..... oh wait, that was something else.

TimP 5th October 2018 12:11 PM

Re: Salt & Vinegar?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OM USer (Post 459328)
You would not need a specialist IC chip to hack a computer. All it would take would be a few lines of microcode embedded in an existing chip.

Wasnt that part of the point, the dodgy code resided in the hidden chip and inserted itself into the BMC (or other firmware) at an opportune time.


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