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-   -   EC-14 for Walkabout (https://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1081)

Pjphoto59 29th February 2008 06:37 PM

EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Hi everybody,

I have just read the recent thread about the EC-14, and would like to ask another question.

If I am going out with a specific photo shoot in mind, I always take all the equipment that I might need. However a lot of my photography is done in "walkabout" mode where I take a camera but do not have a specific target. I like to travel light and I usually carry a small bag with just a body and the 14-54, spare BLM-1 and CF.

I sometimes find I would like more reach than the 14-54 gives, but in circumstances where the 40-150 and 50-200 are at home, because they are too heavy.

I was thinking that an EC-14 would fit in the small bag and give useful extra FL. It can also go with the 50-200 for birds and sport.

I do not want the EC-20 as I do not want to lose 2 stops of speed, Also it is bigger and heavier.

Has anyone else used the EC-14 with the 14-54? How well did it work?
Was there any effect on focus speed?

I would appreciate hearing of anyone's experience of this combo.

Thanks

ianc 29th February 2008 06:41 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
I often use mine when backpacking in the Scottish Highlands. It works fine with the 14-54mm and is a fantastic addition to the 55-200mm.

Ian C.

theMusicMan 29th February 2008 08:12 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
So far I've not found it brilliant with the 70-300mm, but I think this is just me, and I've got some learning to do. The 70-300mm on its own is superb, but so far I don't get anywhere near the results with the same lens when I add the EC-14.

Had some OK results today though... so maybe there's hope yet.

I am not discounting the EC-14 as a good addition to the kit bag, and I am sure it works better with the 50-200, but I need to practice more with it in conjunction with the 70-300mm.

Hope this helps.

Pjphoto59 29th February 2008 08:40 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianc (Post 9447)
I often use mine when backpacking in the Scottish Highlands. It works fine with the 14-54mm and is a fantastic addition to the 55-200mm.

Ian C.

Thanks Ian, sounds like you have no problems using it with the 14-54, which was what I was interested in..

Pjphoto59 29th February 2008 08:47 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Musicman,

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMusicMan (Post 9456)
So far I've not found it brilliant with the 70-300mm, but I think this is just me, and I've got some learning to do. The 70-300mm on its own is superb, but so far I don't get anywhere near the results with the same lens when I add the EC-14.

I would be wary of using it with the 70-300, which I think has a max. aperture of f5.6 (at the long end). With the EC-14 your max. aperture becomes f8, so it must be dark for viewing and a challenge for the focussing. This is partly why I am thinking of an EC-14 rather than an EC-20, with my my 14-54 and 50-200 I will get a max. aperture of f5.6, rather than f8...

Thanks for your comments.

PeterD 29th February 2008 08:55 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by theMusicMan (Post 9456)
So far I've not found it brilliant with the 70-300mm, but I think this is just me, and I've got some learning to do. The 70-300mm on its own is superb, but so far I don't get anywhere near the results with the same lens when I add the EC-14.

Had some OK results today though... so maybe there's hope yet.

I am not discounting the EC-14 as a good addition to the kit bag, and I am sure it works better with the 50-200, but I need to practice more with it in conjunction with the 70-300mm.

Hope this helps.

John,

Just picked up my EC 14 today and fitted it to the 70-300 lens with the same results you have:(. Its probably the way I am using it as others have not reported a problem. Time will tell.

PeterD

theMusicMan 29th February 2008 09:03 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Hey Peter

I don't think there's a problem per sé with the EC-14, but given the light loss factor when used with the 70-300, I guess it's going to take me some time to get to grips with the lens combo. Each time I use it I am starting to get better results, which is encouraging.

I sometimes think I am just being greedy wanting more FL... :)

Stick with it, I am sure you'll get great results.

(gotta say the bigma is sooooooo appealing)

Ian 29th February 2008 09:51 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pjphoto59 (Post 9459)
Musicman,



I would be wary of using it with the 70-300, which I think has a max. aperture of f5.6 (at the long end). With the EC-14 your max. aperture becomes f8, so it must be dark for viewing and a challenge for the focussing. This is partly why I am thinking of an EC-14 rather than an EC-20, with my my 14-54 and 50-200 I will get a max. aperture of f5.6, rather than f8...

Thanks for your comments.

The problem here is that the 70-300 @ 300 is already down to f/5.6. With the converter, you lose another stop to f/8. I would suspect that the lens would really benefit from stopping down a little - so let's say f/11, but that's well past the sweet spot for 10MP four thirds cameras (f/5.6, roughly).

Just as an experiment, try using the lens wide open when using the converter. Maybe having less diffraction softness will be better than having improved sharpness by stopping down a stop?

Ian

photo_owl 1st March 2008 10:59 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pjphoto59 (Post 9459)
Musicman,



I would be wary of using it with the 70-300, which I think has a max. aperture of f5.6 (at the long end). With the EC-14 your max. aperture becomes f8, so it must be dark for viewing and a challenge for the focussing. This is partly why I am thinking of an EC-14 rather than an EC-20, with my my 14-54 and 50-200 I will get a max. aperture of f5.6, rather than f8...

Thanks for your comments.

you will get a max aperture of 4.9 with the ec14 and the 2.8/3.5 lenses

personally I feel I can almost ignore the ec14 when it's in use where I have to think about the ec20 even wide open!

the 510 (and 3) seem more than happy to focus the 3.5s with the ec20 and the 5.6s with the ec14

Ian raises a good point about diffraction - but I would hate to think it was significant below an effective f11 in any circumstances

PeterD 2nd March 2008 09:18 AM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by photo_owl (Post 9630)
you will get a max aperture of 4.9 with the ec14 and the 2.8/3.5 lenses

personally I feel I can almost ignore the ec14 when it's in use where I have to think about the ec20 even wide open!

the 510 (and 3) seem more than happy to focus the 3.5s with the ec20 and the 5.6s with the ec14

Ian raises a good point about diffraction - but I would hate to think it was significant below an effective f11 in any circumstances

I think it comes back to the settings used with the E3. My failures were nearly always due to the fact that I still tried to control the ISO manually.
I have changed this to Auto ISO and set the max ISO to 1000. The reason for this is that, to maintain the aperature to a minimum of f8, the ISO values varied significantly shot to shot. Particularly shooting into shade and in the open. I am using the front wheel to control exposure and the rear wheel to control shutter speed. This combination seems to work better. I would be interested in comments about these settings.

The images seem softer than when using the 70-300 lens alone but can be sharpened up in PP quite well. AF tends to be less responsive in the shadows and has, on occasion caused me to miss what could have been good shots. Focussing tends to hunt a lot in these conditions despite being centre spot small.

PeterD

Pjphoto59 3rd March 2008 11:57 AM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by photo_owl (Post 9630)
you will get a max aperture of 4.9 with the ec14 and the 2.8/3.5 lenses

personally I feel I can almost ignore the ec14 when it's in use where I have to think about the ec20 even wide open!

Many thanks for that comment, which is really what I wanted to hear!

My only previous experience with teleconvertors was with a 2X that I used with OM film cameras. I used it with the 65-200 f4, which made it a 130-400 f8, which was not very usable, with little scope for stopping down. I would think the ec20 best used with f2.0 glass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by photo_owl (Post 9630)
Ian raises a good point about diffraction - but I would hate to think it was significant below an effective f11 in any circumstances

I read a good deal about diffraction elsewhere, and I believe it can be related to pixel size. I think a practical diffraction limit for E1 is f16, for 8MP E300/E500 f13, and for 10MP E3, E410, f11.

Ian 3rd March 2008 12:30 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pjphoto59 (Post 9787)
Many thanks for that comment, which is really what I wanted to hear!

My only previous experience with teleconvertors was with a 2X that I used with OM film cameras. I used it with the 65-200 f4, which made it a 130-400 f8, which was not very usable, with little scope for stopping down. I would think the ec20 best used with f2.0 glass.



I read a good deal about diffraction elsewhere, and I believe it can be related to pixel size. I think a practical diffraction limit for E1 is f16, for 8MP E300/E500 f13, and for 10MP E3, E410, f11.

It really depends on what you define as a 'limit'. It's all relative :)

Even at f/32 (with an EC-14 converter attached) you will probably get better resolution and sharpness than an average point and shoot compact camera, for example. But certainly at f/16, even on an E-1, resolution will be well below the peak.

Ian

Ian 3rd March 2008 12:54 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by photo_owl (Post 9630)
you will get a max aperture of 4.9 with the ec14 and the 2.8/3.5 lenses

personally I feel I can almost ignore the ec14 when it's in use where I have to think about the ec20 even wide open!

the 510 (and 3) seem more than happy to focus the 3.5s with the ec20 and the 5.6s with the ec14

Ian raises a good point about diffraction - but I would hate to think it was significant below an effective f11 in any circumstances

Just to clarify, if you have a lens with max aperture f/2.8-f/3.5 (through the zoom range) with the EC-14 fitted the max aperture range is shifted to f/4-f/4.9.

I concur that I have relatively few problems focusing with the EC-14 using a f/5.6 (actual f/8) lens, like the 40-150 mk2, when using the EC-14. Not yet tried the EC-20.

Ian

Pjphoto59 3rd March 2008 03:50 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian (Post 9791)
It really depends on what you define as a 'limit'. It's all relative :)

Ian

I agree, but I just decided to do a practical test to see if I could show any image degradation by diffraction. I photographed a page of text at 70mm EFL with three cameras and two settings. All on a Benbo Trekker tripod.
E1 at f5.6 and f22
E500 at f5.6 and f22
Ricoh GX100 (1/1.7" sensor) at f5.6 and f 15.9

There are slight signs of more softness at f22 with the Oly cameras, but to my mind, nothing that would affect a result in practical terms.

The GX100 on the other hand shows serious blurring at f15.9 compared with f5.6. It is so noticable that I repeated the shot several times to be sure it was not shake or OOF. I will put the composite result in my gallery. All 100% crops and all shot RAW and unsharpened.

Barr1e 3rd March 2008 05:21 PM

Re: EC-14 for Walkabout
 
Deleted post - as Ian has given an answer I think that covers my problem.

Regards. Barr1e


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