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When black and white is blue

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  • #31
    Re: When black and white is blue

    Originally posted by PetePassword View Post
    That's rubbish!
    I wouldn't use that word but I do agree that the light looks too warm here. The face of the building is only lit by the blue sky as the sun is behind the building so you need a cooler white balance here.

    The white balance of the original is clearly off to the blue/cool side and has a very distinctive blue cast. Just my two cents.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: When black and white is blue

      Originally posted by Zuiko View Post

      Incidentally, most of the gorgeous sunrise and sunset pictures you see taken on transparency film such as Velvia are showing false colours, far warmer than they actually were. The reason is that the film was balanced for about 5600K but the light around sunrise or sunset is typically only 3000K or even lower. For strict colour accuracy it would be more appropriate to use a tungsten balanced film in those situations, or a blue correction filter with daylight balanced film. So why don't landscape photographers make the neccessary corrections for sunrise/sunset pictures? Because the effect on daylight film looks more spectacular, that's why! Strictly speaking it's cheating, but it's accepted by convention.

      Digital white balance control is a wonderful thing, but you still need an "eye" for what is happening with the natural light.

      Great stuff Pete, getting a debate going on this subject!
      First point - I don't actually like the image that started the debate - sorry Pete but it does nothing for me emotionally and neither the subject nor technique really holds my interest. Sorry - but that's my subjective opinion.

      Second point - I agree totally with Zuiko Johns comments.

      Any picture is an interpretation of reality, we interpret with our composition, with our choice of DOF, with any post processing we do. That interpretation is based on what we see/feel/want to show of any particular scene. There is no obligation on the photographer to produce absolute fidelity in any scene (other than for shots limited to factual/documentation), the only obligation is to produce a picture the photographer is pleased with and one that represents what the photographer wants to show.

      There are things we want the automatics of our camera to do right - such as focus, exposure, white balance. And if a camera cannot consistently do these things correctly we, rightly, feel it is wrong/flawed. But these are dumb automatic functions - not a photographer. A Photographer is not a servant of the recommendations of the camera, but, I would contend, an interpreter of a scene.

      If the chosen interpretation of the scene requires choosing a different wb/exposure/shutter speed then that is fine. Provided the photographer knowingly makes that choice to produce the image the photographer 'sees/desires' at the time shooting.

      I'll confess - some of my highest rated/viewed shots here have, what my camera would say, are the wrong wb/exposure. That's not because the camera is wrong, but because I wanted to emphasise/tone certain aspects of the scene. WB is a tool to do this, just as choice of film, filters or shutter speed are choices.

      So the question should be not did you get the wb right, but that there is an emphasis towards the blue is that what you wanted/intended/saw when you envisioned that shot.

      Nick
      Nick Temple-Fry

      Medicine as a science ranks somewhere between archaeology and economics.

      www.theChurchPhotographer.co.uk 90 Churches -- Fairford St Mary's, exceptionally splendid
      www.temple-fry.co.uk

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: When black and white is blue

        Originally posted by theMusicMan View Post
        Hi Pete - you're getting UV and Polariser mixed up. UV filters are relatively cheap and are mainly used as front element protectors because of this. They don't have any detrimental effect on the image, and I'd rather get the UV (or skylight filter as they are sometimes known) scratched than the front element.

        Polarisers are way more expensive and do exactly as you thought UV filters do. They make blue skies bluer, and allow you to remove reflections from windows, and to see through water etc...
        Thanks, I'm learning all the time! I shall get a UV immediately.
        http://www.oneworldnet.co.uk/Photography

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: When black and white is blue

          Originally posted by PetePassword View Post
          I have still to find out how to set the camera to receive firmware downloads, I get so far - and the camera has beeped the PC so I know the connection is fine - but when I click on firmware upgrade it says it can't find a camera. So must be something I'm doing wrong with the camera menu. Back to the manual and read it all again
          hi if you goto the menu /spanner1/ pc mode and set to control the computer should find it and be able to update it
          Cheers

          Mick

          Petroleums Hey
          retired oil boiler

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: When black and white is blue

            I just like spooky feeling shots! I hadn't a clue about white balance previously, but I read in the manual that if I press a certain button while pointing the camera at a piece of white card, it will adjust to white in any particular light at that time, which seems like the ideal solution [and I would probably not know what to set it myself for prevailing light]. I don't want to have to spend minutes adjusting a camera before I can shoot, I need to feel confident that it will reflect what I'm seeing without having to worry about it. This is all very helpful, not that I suspected I was launching an important debate
            http://www.oneworldnet.co.uk/Photography

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: When black and white is blue

              Originally posted by Nick Temple-Fry View Post
              First point - I don't actually like the image that started the debate - sorry Pete but it does nothing for me emotionally and neither the subject nor technique really holds my interest. Sorry - but that's my subjective opinion.

              Second point - I agree totally with Zuiko Johns comments.

              Any picture is an interpretation of reality, we interpret with our composition, with our choice of DOF, with any post processing we do. That interpretation is based on what we see/feel/want to show of any particular scene. There is no obligation on the photographer to produce absolute fidelity in any scene (other than for shots limited to factual/documentation), the only obligation is to produce a picture the photographer is pleased with and one that represents what the photographer wants to show.

              There are things we want the automatics of our camera to do right - such as focus, exposure, white balance. And if a camera cannot consistently do these things correctly we, rightly, feel it is wrong/flawed. But these are dumb automatic functions - not a photographer. A Photographer is not a servant of the recommendations of the camera, but, I would contend, an interpreter of a scene.

              If the chosen interpretation of the scene requires choosing a different wb/exposure/shutter speed then that is fine. Provided the photographer knowingly makes that choice to produce the image the photographer 'sees/desires' at the time shooting.

              I'll confess - some of my highest rated/viewed shots here have, what my camera would say, are the wrong wb/exposure. That's not because the camera is wrong, but because I wanted to emphasise/tone certain aspects of the scene. WB is a tool to do this, just as choice of film, filters or shutter speed are choices.

              So the question should be not did you get the wb right, but that there is an emphasis towards the blue is that what you wanted/intended/saw when you envisioned that shot.

              Nick
              Thanks Nick, I don't mind at all that you aren't moved by the subject, we're all different in our tastes, and agree with what you say about interpretation. I have learned that I need to drop the automatic assumption that the camera will just capture what I'm seeing without me having to engage brain.
              http://www.oneworldnet.co.uk/Photography

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: When black and white is blue

                Originally posted by skyman1 View Post
                hi if you goto the menu /spanner1/ pc mode and set to control the computer should find it and be able to update it
                Sorry, I can't find anything remotely like /spanner1/, is that an icon or the word? The menu is so confusing; I have: Card setup, Saturation, Contrast, Sharpness, Color Space, WB BKT, Raw.JPG, Noise Filter, Noise reduction, Shading comp, AF Illuminator, Anti Shock, Pixel mapping and a downward wavy arrow with =/-. That's it. Is it any of those, or via any of those? The manual seems very limited on this issue.
                http://www.oneworldnet.co.uk/Photography

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: When black and white is blue

                  Originally posted by PetePassword View Post
                  Sorry, I can't find anything remotely like /spanner1/, is that an icon or the word? The menu is so confusing; I have: Card setup, Saturation, Contrast, Sharpness, Color Space, WB BKT, Raw.JPG, Noise Filter, Noise reduction, Shading comp, AF Illuminator, Anti Shock, Pixel mapping and a downward wavy arrow with =/-. That's it. Is it any of those, or via any of those? The manual seems very limited on this issue.
                  Sorry i was a bit lacking in detail
                  goto menu
                  down 2 to to spanner 1 icon it shows ev step
                  right to highlight ev step
                  then up 4 to pc mode
                  right to storage/control then select control

                  hope that is easier to follow and it works for you
                  Cheers

                  Mick

                  Petroleums Hey
                  retired oil boiler

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: When black and white is blue

                    That was clear enough, and I found PC mode, and control [already selected], and still it fails to detect a camera. Should the menu disappear when the USB is plugged in? And the window at the top go blank? I'm demoralised now, I just don't have a clue what's wrong. Time to head butt a wall.
                    http://www.oneworldnet.co.uk/Photography

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: When black and white is blue

                      Hi Pete
                      Plug in the camera then switch it on But i have just checked mine and i have a problem with Olympus master it wont find the camera But i use Olympus Studio and it works fine You can download a trial version of Olympus Studio to try to update your kit that way
                      and the displays do go blank when usb pluged in
                      Cheers

                      Mick

                      Petroleums Hey
                      retired oil boiler

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: When black and white is blue

                        I was using Viewer 1.51. Not heard of Master, but I have Studio 30 day trial version.
                        http://www.oneworldnet.co.uk/Photography

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: When black and white is blue

                          you can download the full version of Olympus Master 2 from here
                          http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/20...S_Master_2.htm
                          if you want to try it you will need to be in storage mode (not control mode) to get your pictures
                          the studio trial version should update your kit in control mode then click camera update from the top bar menu
                          Cheers

                          Mick

                          Petroleums Hey
                          retired oil boiler

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: When black and white is blue

                            Latest update Studio is 2.21
                            on E-1 body 1.5 and
                            lens 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 is 1.3
                            it will tell you what firmware it is at when you connect the camera
                            Cheers

                            Mick

                            Petroleums Hey
                            retired oil boiler

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: When black and white is blue

                              Still no progress. Using all three; Viewer, Master and Studio, all fail to find the camera. So I got to thinking about batteries, as it says to ensure battery is fully charged before downloading firmware. Of the five batteries I got with the camera two were clearly defunct, the charger kept flashing, three appeared to charge. The one in the camera has now gone flat and I'm recharging it, the other two that I charged are dead again. So perhaps all the batteries are dodgy and I need to replace them. Odd that it can go through the menu and then just not find the camera, but it might be the reason I've had no joy despite doing it exactly as instructed. Anyone know if battery power is likely to do this?
                              http://www.oneworldnet.co.uk/Photography

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: When black and white is blue

                                Hi Pete ah you have me stumped there, In Studio with the camera set to storage can you download the pictures? try that if you can then unplug your camera and reset to control and reconnect the camera to see if it finds the camera other than that I cannot think of what to do
                                Cheers

                                Mick

                                Petroleums Hey
                                retired oil boiler

                                Comment

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