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The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

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  • The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

    John

    "A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there � even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau

  • #2
    Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

    Well done John! You acted in the manner that I should like to think I would have (though it is more likely that I would have sloped off quietly to avoid any confrontation)

    This fellah was out of order, especially in trying to cover your camera at close quarters.

    His tee shirts do seem to back him up, though.
    Colin
    "Don't blame me..."

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    • #3
      Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

      Sounds like he committed criminal assault. Any damage to the camera would have been criminal damage.

      However, I think the met would have sorted this out by telling the guy to get back in his shop and you to move along, pretty much what seemed to happen.

      Personally I have a reluctance to photo people without their permission, even though I have a right to.
      John

      m4/3: E-P2, EM-5, 100-300, 14-42mm 12-50mm, 45mm, panny 14mm. 4/3: 7-14 + Flashes & tripods & stuff

      "Take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but footprints".

      Flickr gallery

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      • #4
        Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

        You did the right thing John, maybe he was having a bad day and not made many sales hence the demand for £10, also you might have just been the 25th person to have stood outside his shop with no intention of purchase, but had walked away with a photo.

        My thoughts are be friendly, smile but be wary also.

        Tom
        "Who is watching the Watchers, watching the Watchers watching us"

        Its not what you see, it's the way that you see it"

        Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/photofxstudios

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        • #5
          Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

          John, I am afraid to say that the "Shopkeeper" was right ! "A photograph may not compose only another Copyright" ... the shopkeepers shop is his copyright ! see the .pdf detailed source below

          You may photograph a street; some shops - but not one shop !

          Visit a website "Photographers Rights UK"

          " ... PhotographersRights.co.uk

          Disclaimer
          Nothing on this site should be considered an authoritative legal opinion. If you want such an opinion you would be well-advised to contact a solicitor



          This site was created in response to an alarming increase incidents where the rights of photographers to take pictures as they wish have been called into question, usually illegally

          We’d be very interested to hear your experiences.
          But for not the following may be useful

          If you want authorititive information, you should probably look at PDF on CIf you want authorititive information, you should probably look at PDF on Photographers Rightswritten by Linda Macpherson LL.B, Dip.L.P., LL.M, lecturer in law at Heriot Watt University
          ... " LL.B, Dip.L.P., LL.M, lecturer in law at Heriot Watt University [/I] ... "

          Please get in touch via info@photographersrights.org.uk


          Visit BELOW to download a FREE up to date .pdf written by Linda Macpherson LL.B, Dip.L.P., LL.M, lecturer in law at Heriot Watt University [/I] ... " .pdf file

          http://www.sirimo.co.uk/2009/05/14/u...ers-rights-v2/
          .
          .
          [I].
          .
          I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
          Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


          http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

          the ONE photo album

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          • #6
            Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

            Originally posted by Chevvyf1 View Post
            John, I am afraid to say that the "Shopkeeper" was right ! "A photograph may not compose only another Copyright" ... the shopkeepers shop is his copyright ! see the .pdf detailed source below

            You may photograph a street; some shops - but not one shop !
            That's very debatable. From the same document: "It is not an infringement of copyright to take photographs of buildings, scuptures and works of artistic craftsmanship that are permanently situated in a pubic place or in premises that are open to the public"
            John

            m4/3: E-P2, EM-5, 100-300, 14-42mm 12-50mm, 45mm, panny 14mm. 4/3: 7-14 + Flashes & tripods & stuff

            "Take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but footprints".

            Flickr gallery

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

              Having had several such encounters, I feel that far to many of the freedoms that have been so hard won over many years are being eroded.

              Often it is by individuals who have beliefs and opinions that are entirely of their own making, reinforced by an attitude, that results in a demeanour that is often confrontational.

              By acting in this "bullying" way they often achieve their objectives, which re-inforces the learned behaviour, that then becomes part of their personality...

              While I try hard to be respectfull of other people, I feel very strongly that this must be reciprocated. In such a situation as described, I would have responded in a very similar way.

              When "working an area", I tend to make my presence know by asking (often quite loudly) if anyone objects to being photographed. I've learned over the years that most people don't mind and those that do, simply turn away.

              When approached with the "You can't photograph me/here" I always check that I'm on public land (sometimes unclear in parts of London) then carry on depending on how the approach was made. When asked, very nicely, not to photograph the list of names outside the offices in the Temple, I complied. When shouted at by "security" outside Deutsche Bank, my retort was polite but very succinct.

              The moral argument is the same as the subjective assessment of our photography. What I like, you may not, being based on each of our beliefs, taste or whatever you want to call it. Only when I try to impose my opinion or control yours, is something morally wrong with the interaction.

              Unfortunatly the fickle nature of people will sometimes place us in such situations. Likely as not, on another day, when the VAT inspector hadn't just left the shop, he would have welcomed the attention.
              Graham

              We often repeat the mistakes we most enjoy...

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              • #8
                Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

                The facts here are that you can photograph anything from a public place as long as, as John points out, in doing so you are not breaking the law in any other manner.

                John had every right to take a photograph of the shop, and the shopkeeper had no right in pushing his hands into Johns camera and lenses.

                Not suggesting John isn't a world class photographer, but if John was a 'famous' photographer who was recognised by the shopkeeper, or of the BBC were filming outside his shop thus offering some free publicity, I am sure he'd have welcomed them.
                John

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                • #9
                  Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

                  I personally don't like this sort of attitude....John you acted with dignity I feel, many others would not have...me included.!! I do not think you have infringed any laws/acts....but that's my opinion for what its worth...

                  Peter
                  OMD-EM1 Mk2, 40-150. f2.8Pro, MC-14 converter, 7-14mm 2.8, 17mm 1.8, 45mm 1.8G, OM50mm 1.8, OM 28mm F2.8, OM 200mm F4 Giottos Silk Road YTL8384Tripod Giottos MH5011 head FL36 and other bits and bobs...
                  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
                  www.flickr.com/photos/141996687@N02/

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                  • #10
                    Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

                    Originally posted by jdal View Post
                    That's very debatable. From the same document: "It is not an infringement of copyright to take photographs of buildings, scuptures and works of artistic craftsmanship that are permanently situated in a pubic place or in premises that are open to the public"
                    plural I think it mentions "one shop" later on ...
                    .
                    .
                    [I].
                    .
                    I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
                    Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

                    the ONE photo album

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

                      You raise an interesting question and one that I have had a similar experience with at a South Melbourne Cafe where the proprietor of similar appearance berated me for the same reason, also demanding a fee for allowing me to do so, I might add! I too responded as you did with a brief lecture on the law in this country after which he withdrew.

                      But then only yesterday my daughter became terribly upset when some sleezebag covertly photographed her studying at the public library. She immediately complained to the desk and the offender was evicted.

                      I think that we as responsible photographers practising our art in good faith and goodwill will always use good judgment and good sense in respecting the rights and personal privacy of others without compromising our own right to photograph ethically in public.

                      Now to withdraw my arms beneath the blankets before they freeze solid!
                      My Flickr

                      * mark * Wangaratta, Victoria, Australia **
                      The OM-D E-M1 Mark II * OM-D M5 MkII * XZ2 * XZ1 * E3
                      On post-processing: The camera kneads the dough, PP bakes the bread - Greenhill

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                      • #12
                        Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

                        Hi John,

                        A Great off the cuff photograph, I haven't tried this type of photography as I would feel a little awkward.

                        Though I take my hat off to those who do and get such a nice photographic result as you did.

                        KR,

                        Thomas.
                        Many Thanks,

                        Thomas.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

                          Originally posted by Chevvyf1 View Post
                          plural I think it mentions "one shop" later on ...
                          This is an important point. My quote is the 2nd last paragraph, the last one being about photographing banknotes. Where does it say "one shop" ((or equivalent)? I'd just photograph 2 and crop
                          John

                          m4/3: E-P2, EM-5, 100-300, 14-42mm 12-50mm, 45mm, panny 14mm. 4/3: 7-14 + Flashes & tripods & stuff

                          "Take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but footprints".

                          Flickr gallery

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

                            John
                            I think I would have moved to sequential shooting and shot whole bunch of shots of the guy.
                            I have been confronted by several of security guards the one in Penrith train station was OK when we discussed what I was doing. The one in Bury in the shopping centre I baffled with a bit blurb on my rights and he left me alone. The one on spinningfields in Manchester was a bit tougher and as I had an idea he was legally right I stopped taking pictures.

                            I will say though that I had a legal right to be taking pictures I would persist and even call the Police myself. I will say though that I am not really a people photographer and very rarely actually take pictures of strangers but they are often just in my shots
                            OMD E-M1 OMD E-M5II MMF3 12-40 pro 12-50 EZ 14-42 EZ 9-18 f4.0 -5.6 40 -150f4-f5.6 R 60mm f2.8 macro Sigma 105 f2.8 macro Holga 60mm plastic Holga pinhole lens lens and a XZ-1 Olympus - 35 SP Trip 35 Pen EEs OM2sp

                            I nice view does not mean a good photograph. My FLickr

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                            • #15
                              Re: The Rights And Wrongs Of Street Photography

                              Zuiko, I'm sorry to read that you experienced this confrontation. I don't think you did anything wrong. I will have a read of the guide indicated by Chevvy (thanks for that Chevvy).
                              Its reasonable to expect to appear in photos or your premises to appear in photos if they are in a place that attracts the public. Maybe some of his gear is knock-off and he didn't want any evidence being gathered.

                              As far as individual buildings are concerned I believe there may be a copyright issue - my only experience is having had a photo of the Transamerica Pyramid in San Francisco being rejected by an agency because that building image is copyright....though cityscapes including it are not. This only affects anyone wanting to sell images - there is of course no such restriction on photographing buildings for private use.

                              Mark has an interesting point that we should apply some sensitivity here.....but can we confidently trust ourselves to draw the line when we are in free flow and 'in the creative zone' taking street photos? Clearly stealth mode is unacceptable - including using a flip out screen at waist height...tempting as it is sometimes.
                              see my blog... http://www.rps.org/my-rps/portfolio
                              and flickr page...http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianvickers/

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