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Boris Gate

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  • Re: Boris Gate

    Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
    Quite right. Jim can hardly claim that his favourite journals, Pravda, The Grauniad and The Morning Star, are exactly neutral on the subject of politics.
    I've never read Pravda or the Morning Star - so you're wrong 2 out of 3! Better luck next time.

    Jim

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    • Re: Boris Gate

      Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
      I can think of very few foreign powers other than perhaps Russia that would welcome a Corbyn government in Britain.
      I can think of a foreign power that would welcome a compliant government lead by 'Pants on Fire' Johnson - America, lead by Trump!

      Jim

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      • Re: Boris Gate

        Like a scene from Star Wars, Boris as Salacious Crumb, Pet of Jabba the Trump
        Tolerated because he was an amusement

        Comment


        • Re: Boris Gate

          Originally posted by Jim Ford View Post
          I've never read Pravda or the Morning Star - so you're wrong 2 out of 3! Better luck next time.

          Jim
          So it's only the Guardian then that is your source of "truth"? Just asking?
          Dave

          My Flickr

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          • Re: Boris Gate

            Originally posted by Jim Ford View Post
            I've never read Pravda or the Morning Star - so you're wrong 2 out of 3! Better luck next time.

            Jim
            Maybe I wasn't being entirely serious Jim. And you did elude to having read Pravda, the Morning Star or both when we held a poll about newspapers that we read a year or two ago.

            So if it wasn't you who was it? Tram perhaps?
            ---------------

            Naughty Nigel


            Difficult is worth doing

            Comment


            • Re: Boris Gate

              Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
              Maybe I wasn't being entirely serious Jim. And you did elude to having read Pravda, the Morning Star or both when we held a poll about newspapers that we read a year or two ago.

              So if it wasn't you who was it? Tram perhaps?
              Last post from me on here until post election, so sorry no response to your little bit of late night **** stirring.

              Comment


              • Re: Boris Gate

                If the theory of the "multiverse" is correct, somewhere, not only is Corbyn PM but he has been allowed to stay in office for life.

                Harold
                The body is willing but the mind is weak.

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                • Re: Boris Gate

                  Originally posted by Harold Gough View Post
                  If the theory of the "multiverse" is correct, somewhere, not only is Corbyn PM but he has been allowed to stay in office for life.

                  Harold
                  North Korea?
                  ---------------

                  Naughty Nigel


                  Difficult is worth doing

                  Comment


                  • Re: Boris Gate

                    Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
                    Maybe I wasn't being entirely serious Jim. And you did elude to having read Pravda, the Morning Star or both when we held a poll about newspapers that we read a year or two ago.

                    So if it wasn't you who was it? Tram perhaps?
                    It would unlikely have been me. If I answer a poll, I do it truthfully.

                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • Re: Boris Gate

                      Originally posted by wornish View Post
                      So it's only the Guardian then that is your source of "truth"? Just asking?

                      I can't speak for Jim but personally I'd trust the Graun any day over the Express, Mail or Torygraph. Unlike most of what pass for newspapers in this country it is not owned by wealthy barons with fortunes in tax havens but by a trust which exists to secure the financial and editorial independence of The Guardian in perpetuity.
                      Regards
                      Richard

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                      • Re: Boris Gate

                        You speak also for me, Richard!

                        Jim

                        Comment


                        • Re: Boris Gate

                          Originally posted by Otto View Post
                          I can't speak for Jim but personally I'd trust the Graun any day over the Express, Mail or Torygraph. Unlike most of what pass for newspapers in this country it is not owned by wealthy barons with fortunes in tax havens but by a trust which exists to secure the financial and editorial independence of The Guardian in perpetuity.
                          Point taken; but would you not agree that the Grauniad takes a consistently left of centre viewpoint and therefore cannot be held out as either neutral or independent?
                          ---------------

                          Naughty Nigel


                          Difficult is worth doing

                          Comment


                          • Re: Boris Gate

                            Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
                            Point taken; but would you not agree that the Grauniad takes a consistently left of centre viewpoint and therefore cannot be held out as either neutral or independent?
                            I suppose that if you're consistently exposed to extreme right wing views from The Sun, Daily Mail and Telegraph, then anything in the centre is going to appear to be left wing. In the same way, Margaret Thatcher would appear to be a communist to Attila the Hun!

                            Jim

                            Comment


                            • Re: Boris Gate

                              It is somewhat left-wing, yes, but unlike some of the tabloids I don't think it prints many downright lies. The Express' weather forecasts alone are sufficient grounds for me not to trust anything else in that paper! Jim has a good point
                              Regards
                              Richard

                              Comment


                              • Re: Boris Gate

                                Originally posted by Jim Ford View Post
                                I suppose that if you're consistently exposed to extreme right wing views from The Sun, Daily Mail and Telegraph, then anything in the centre is going to appear to be left wing.

                                Jim
                                C'mon Jim; I don't think by any stretch of the imagination the Grauniad could be described as 'in the centre of anything'. But don't just take my word for it:

                                Political stance and editorial opinion
                                Founded by textile traders and merchants, in its early years The Guardian had a reputation as "an organ of the middle class", or in the words of C. P. Scott's son Ted, "a paper that will remain bourgeois to the last". Associated at first with the Little Circle and hence with classical liberalism as expressed by the Whigs and later by the Liberal Party, its political orientation underwent a decisive change after World War II, leading to a gradual alignment with Labour and the political left in general.

                                The Scott Trust describes one of its "core purposes" to be "to secure the financial and editorial independence of the Guardian in perpetuity: as a quality national newspaper without party affiliation; remaining faithful to its liberal tradition". The paper's readership is generally on the mainstream left of British political opinion: a MORI poll taken between April and June 2000 showed that 80 per cent of Guardian readers were Labour Party voters; according to another MORI poll taken in 2005, 48 per cent of Guardian readers were Labour voters and 34 per cent Liberal Democrat voters. The newspaper's reputation as a platform for liberal opinions has led to the use of the epithets "Guardian reader" and "Guardianista" for people holding such views, or as a stereotype of such people as middle class, earnest and politically correct.

                                Although the paper is often considered to be "linked inextricably" to the Labour Party, three of The Guardian's four leader writers joined the more centrist Social Democratic Party on its foundation in 1981. The paper was enthusiastic in its support for Tony Blair in his successful bid to lead the Labour Party, and to be elected Prime Minister. On 19 January 2003, two months before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, an Observer Editorial said: "Military intervention in the Middle East holds many dangers. But if we want a lasting peace it may be the only option. […] War with Iraq may yet not come, but, conscious of the potentially terrifying responsibility resting with the British Government, we find ourselves supporting the current commitment to a possible use of force." But The Guardian opposed the war, along with the Daily Mirror and The Independent.

                                Then Guardian features editor Ian Katz asserted in 2004 that "it is no secret we are a centre-left newspaper". In 2008, Guardian columnist Jackie Ashley said that editorial contributors were a mix of "right-of-centre libertarians, greens, Blairites, Brownites, Labourite but less enthusiastic Brownites, etc," and that the newspaper was "clearly left of centre and vaguely progressive". She also said that "you can be absolutely certain that come the next general election, The Guardian's stance will not be dictated by the editor, still less any foreign proprietor (it helps that there isn't one) but will be the result of vigorous debate within the paper". The paper's comment and opinion pages, though often written by centre-left contributors such as Polly Toynbee, have allowed some space for right-of-centre voices such as Sir Max Hastings and Michael Gove. Since an editorial in 2000, The Guardian has favoured abolition of the British monarchy. "I write for the Guardian," said Max Hastings in 2005, "because it is read by the new establishment," reflecting the paper's then-growing influence.

                                In the run-up to the 2010 general election, following a meeting of the editorial staff, the paper declared its support for the Liberal Democrats, due in particular, to the party's stance on electoral reform. The paper suggested tactical voting to prevent a Conservative victory, given Britain's first-past-the-post electoral system. At the 2015 election, the paper switched its support to the Labour Party. The paper argued that Britain needed a new direction and Labour "speaks with more urgency than its rivals on social justice, standing up to predatory capitalism, on investment for growth, on reforming and strengthening the public realm, Britain's place in Europe and international development".

                                Assistant Editor Michael White, in discussing media self-censorship in March 2011, says: "I have always sensed liberal, middle class ill-ease in going after stories about immigration, legal or otherwise, about welfare fraud or the less attractive tribal habits of the working class, which is more easily ignored altogether. Toffs, including royal ones, Christians, especially popes, governments of Israel, and US Republicans are more straightforward targets."

                                In a 2013 interview for NPR, the Guardian's Latin America correspondent Rory Carroll stated that many editors at The Guardian believed and continue to believe that they should support Hugo Chávez "because he was a standard-bearer for the left".

                                In the 2015 Labour Party leadership election, The Guardian supported Yvette Cooper and was critical of left-winger Jeremy Corbyn, the successful candidate. These positions were criticised by the Morning Star, which accused The Guardian of being conservative. Although the majority of political columnists in The Guardian were against Corbyn winning, Owen Jones, Seumas Milne, and George Monbiot wrote supportive articles about him.

                                Despite this critical position, in the 2017 election The Guardian endorsed the Labour Party. In the 2019 European election The Guardian invited its readers to vote for pro-EU candidates, without endorsing specific parties.


                                Oh, and for what its worth, I am not "consistently exposed to extreme right wing views from The Sun, Daily Mail and Telegraph" because I don't read them.

                                Perhaps it is time for you to recalibrate your idea of where the 'middle ground' really lies?


                                Originally posted by Jim Ford View Post
                                In the same way, Margaret Thatcher would appear to be a communist to Attila the Hun!
                                And Tony Blair?
                                ---------------

                                Naughty Nigel


                                Difficult is worth doing

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