Boris Gate

[Phill D]

Re: Boris Gate

Hopefully not even a little USA Mark. I like the USA when on holiday but would hate to come home to it too!

Not sure I'm in favour of an election at the moment Dave, just more expense and anyway none of the current crop have proved they are worth voting for. I'd prefer to get Brexit settled let it be worked to the end of the current term and then decide who would do the best job of carrying it on.

[Otto]

Re: Boris Gate

Where did all this anti-EU rhetoric come from? This is illuminating, and the comments worth reading too:

https://politics-punked.com/2019/10/...nny-foreigner/

Those papers have the highest circulations in the UK, and their owners are non-doms who stand to lose from the upcoming EU anti-tax avoidance legislation. There cannot be a connection here can there?

[Jax]

Re: Boris Gate

Where did all this anti-EU rhetoric come from? This is illuminating, and the comments worth reading too:

https://politics-punked.com/2019/10/...nny-foreigner/

Those papers have the highest circulations in the UK, and their owners are non-doms who stand to lose from the upcoming EU anti-tax avoidance legislation. There cannot be a connection here can there?

Politics Punked: Never mind the bollocks. A loud fast moving form of politics. Turning politics and its attendant culture on its head

Reading several articles indicates what a wonderful politically unbiased, responsible, organisation the site is (NOT) How deep did you have to dig before you discovered it ?

Jax

[Beagletorque]

Re: Boris Gate

Always amazed me that Sunderland voted to leave, despite being reliant on EU car exports where 90% of what they make goes into the EU tariff free.

One assumes they believed the press rather than job reality.

Reminds me of Turkeys voting for Christmas.

If you did not watch it then "What Britain Buys and Sells in a Day" from the BBC is worth a look. 3 episodes, the one on cars (#3) is instructive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...eries-1-3-cars

[Otto]

Re: Boris Gate

Reading several articles indicates what a wonderful politically unbiased, responsible, organisation the site is (NOT) How deep did you have to dig before you discovered it ?

LOL - I didn't have to dig for it, it is linked from the North Yorkshire for Europe Facebook page. I actually thought that was a well reasoned article which made clear from where much of the misinformation and half truths about the EU has originated. Which of those "news"papers do you read Jax? . Also, which of the other articles on that site did you consider biased and irresponsible - presumably because they disagreed with your views? .

Here's another one:

https://politics-punked.com/2019/10/...british-heist/

[Jax]

Re: Boris Gate

Here's another one:

https://politics-punked.com/2019/10/...british-heist/

Ohhh NOOOOO ! Not another one... Arrrghhhh


Jax

[peak4]

Re: Boris Gate

Ohhh NOOOOO ! Not another one... Arrrghhhh


Jax

I can see you might find that biased, though I personally more or less agree with the article.

To bring it back to "Boris Gate"

Perhaps this article in the Telegraph should be given more prominence.

"Quitting the EU won't solve our problems, says Boris Johnson
Britain’s economic problems would not be solved by simply leaving the European Union, Boris Johnson warns."

Even Sajid Javid, seems(ed) to agree with some of it.

"Sajid Javid: The only thing leaving the EU guarantees is a lost decade for British business"

[Naughty Nigel]

Re: Boris Gate

Always amazed me that Sunderland voted to leave, despite being reliant on EU car exports where 90% of what they make goes into the EU tariff free.

One assumes they believed the press rather than job reality.

Reminds me of Turkeys voting for Christmas.

Yes; the Sunderland vote was a surprise given their reliance on Nissan for employment, but old habits die hard.

I remember a BBC Look North reporter interviewing some Nissan employees shortly after the referendum and asking why Sunderland had voted to leave. Their comments, to a man, were along the lines of 'well the bosses want us to remain'.

It is like Red Robbo and British Leyland all over again; but then the Makkems never were the sharpest knives in the drawer and they always vote Labour.

Nearly Hartlepool has a similar problem with 'foreigners'. Back in the Napoleonic wars the Hartlepudlians hung a French monkey because they thought it was a spy.

[wornish]

Re: Boris Gate

I can see you might find that biased, though I personally more or less agree with the article.

To bring it back to "Boris Gate"

Perhaps this article in the Telegraph should be given more prominence.

"Quitting the EU won't solve our problems, says Boris Johnson
Britain’s economic problems would not be solved by simply leaving the European Union, Boris Johnson warns."

Even Sajid Javid, seems(ed) to agree with some of it.

"Sajid Javid: The only thing leaving the EU guarantees is a lost decade for British business"

Of course, leaving the EU alone won't solve our problems but at least it frees us to trade with who we want have our own laws and have a government that we can vote out if we don't like what they do.

Please explain how staying will help? It's working really well in so many EU countries right now.

[Tram]

Re: Boris Gate

Yes; the Sunderland vote was a surprise given their reliance on Nissan for employment, but old habits die hard.

I remember a BBC Look North reporter interviewing some Nissan employees shortly after the referendum and asking why Sunderland had voted to leave. Their comments, to a man, were along the lines of 'well the bosses want us to remain'.

It is like Red Robbo and British Leyland all over again; but then the Makkems never were the sharpest knives in the drawer and they always vote Labour.

Nearly Hartlepool has a similar problem with 'foreigners'. Back in the Napoleonic wars the Hartlepudlians hung a French monkey because they thought it was a spy.

They also voted the local football mascot in as Mayor, Hangus the Monkey I believe was his on pitch name.

Along the same lines is why do areas that would benefit most from EU regeneration cash want to leave.
Don't recall Tory governments in the past having much time or money for our Northern compatriots

[wornish]

Re: Boris Gate

From Twitter just now:

England 19 New Zealand 7

At the end of 80 minutes, England will be ahead but will ask for an extension thinking they can’t win. The All Blacks will agree, thinking they can win. The game then continues for the next 3 years until Nigel Owens is elected to the Welsh Parliament and breaks it all up

[Naughty Nigel]

Re: Boris Gate

You might be right, but don't bank on it.

Watching Question Time last night, held in South Shields - historically a Labour stronghold - the people are fed up with the political class.

I think the same applies to a lot of constituencies of all political persuasions.

I watched that too, and inevitably there were Labour supporters still harping on about closing the coal mines and Consett steel works nearly forty years previously.

If, by some miracle, the coal mines and steel works were all still open and working what on earth would we do with the unwanted coal and steel?

This is the danger of letting political ideology get in the way of reality.

The Scottish government, with all its supposed socialist credentials, bought the steel for the new Fourth Road crossing from China while Redcar and other UK steelworks were still struggling for survival.

[wornish]

Re: Boris Gate

I watched that too, and inevitably there were Labour supporters still harping on about closing the coal mines and Consett steel works nearly forty years previously.

If, by some miracle, the coal mines and steel works were all still open and working what on earth would we do with the unwanted coal and steel?

This is the danger of letting political ideology get in the way of reality.

The Scottish government, with all its supposed socialist credentials, bought the steel for the new Fourth Road crossing from China while Redcar and other UK steelworks were still struggling for survival.

I was about to post almost the same thing you beat me to it.
The "left" seems to believe that China, India and Malaysia don't exist and we can simply return to the trade union utopia of the 1960s and early 70s.

Just like it has worked for Venezuela.

[Otto]

Re: Boris Gate

Of course, leaving the EU alone won't solve our problems but at least it frees us to trade with who we want have our own laws and have a government that we can vote out if we don't like what they do.

Please explain how staying will help? It's working really well in so many EU countries right now.

Both Bill's links are to articles some years old, presumably written before Boris and co found out about the anti-tax avoidance rules the EU are bringing in next January! Those rules may well result in a much greater tax income for this country to spend on its underfunded public services if we stay in, as opposed to coming out and getting tax cuts instead - but only for the rich of course.

Please don't keep repeating the old chestnut about having our own laws etc., we already have our own laws and we can already vote out our government if we don't like them - subject of course to the limitations of the Fixed Term Parliament act which ironically may well prevent Boris calling an early election!

We already trade with hundreds of countries through the EU but have virtually no agreements in place for after we leave. I read recently about a study which had looked at all our laws, tens of thousands of them, and concluded there were very very few that had been "imposed" on us by the EU; most of those that had were to do with environmental protection and workers' rights, both of which are likely to be early casualties of a Boris Brexit. Along with the USA cherrypicking our NHS and other services no doubt. I have spent quite a lot of time in the US and I have no wish at all to get any closer to it.

[peak4]

Re: Boris Gate

Both Bill's links are to articles some years old, presumably written before Boris and co found out about the anti-tax avoidance rules the EU are bringing in next January! Those rules may well result in a much greater tax income for this country to spend on its underfunded public services if we stay in, as opposed to coming out and getting tax cuts instead - but only for the rich of course.
...........................

I chose old links deliberately, as I'm sure you'd sussed.
I would contend that both persons mentioned were genuinely, arguably for good reasons, fairly staunchly remain at the time; they then changed their allegiances when they felt it would further enhance their personal careers.

That Boris is now allegedly backed by those who would be at risk of losing out personally, (due to the ensuing tax avoidance legislation), happened subsequently for him.
Obviously the ERG, IFT, IEA etc have had this agenda for some time.