Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

[wornish]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Doesn' t take long for this thread to go in to personal attack mode does it?

Calling people names solves nothing, IMHO.
Disagreeing with what politicians say or do is fine and even better if backed up with an alternative argument or proposed action.

[Naughty Nigel]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

She has the most important quality of any politician - resilience. She has already survived drinking from the poisoned chalice whilst others dare not even let it touch their lips. I don't see too many of her critics putting themselves forward for her job!

Spot on John.

I heard a Labour MP today saying that TM should call an election so that Labour could negotiate with the EU. What?

Labour found themselves incapable of supporting David Cameron ahead of the referendum, and nobody from any side raised questions about the NI border or anything else for that matter. But for these factors I have no doubt that we would have voted to remain.

Does Labour seriously believe they could negotiate a better deal now?

TM has one big advantage over most of her cohorts. She is well aware that Brexit is a poison chalice and she just wants to get the job done. At her age, and whatever the outcome it is highly unlikely that she will want to remain as PM for very long after March next year.

TM stepped in when Boris and other shafted themselves after the referendum vote. Nobody hoping for a long term political career would have touched it with a bargepole, which is precisely why nobody with any sense would want the job right now!

[Zuiko]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Doesn' t take long for this thread to go in to personal attack mode does it?

Calling people names solves nothing, IMHO.
Disagreeing with what politicians say or do is fine and even better if backed up with an alternative argument or proposed action.

I can only presume that you are referring to the bit of banter about JRM between myself and Tim?? Well maybe it is all about perception and I perceive that you don't demonstrate quite the same concerns when certain Labour politicians get similar treatment. But of course, I may be wrong....

[TimP]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Doesn' t take long for this thread to go in to personal attack mode does it?

Calling people names solves nothing, IMHO.
Disagreeing with what politicians say or do is fine and even better if backed up with an alternative argument or proposed action.

Do you mean my comments re JRM? The mans an utter tw@. Most things he says and does deserve derision, sorry about that!

[Zuiko]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Spot on John.

I heard a Labour MP today saying that TM should call an election so that Labour could negotiate with the EU. What?

Labour found themselves incapable of supporting David Cameron ahead of the referendum, and nobody from any side raised questions about the NI border or anything else for that matter. But for these factors I have no doubt that we would have voted to remain.

Does Labour seriously believe they could negotiate a better deal now?

TM has one big advantage over most of her cohorts. She is well aware that Brexit is a poison chalice and she just wants to get the job done. At her age, and whatever the outcome it is highly unlikely that she will want to remain as PM for very long after March next year.

TM stepped in when Boris and other shafted themselves after the referendum vote. Nobody hoping for a long term political career would have touched it with a bargepole, which is precisely why nobody with any sense would want the job right now!

Absolutely. Labour keep calling for a General Election... well they must, they can hardly say they don't want one can they? But privately, I'm sure, it's the last thing Corbyn wants at the moment. Why risk coming to power during one of the most unstable and uncertain periods of our history since the English Civil War? Surely it's better to let the Tories continue to tear themselves apart and at the same time take all the risks associated with Brexit? Once that's over and the blame has firmly stuck, and the Conservatives have essentially split into two opposing parties, then will be the time for Labour to fight an election. For now, all they need to do is settle down with a bag of popcorn and enjoy the spectacle.

[TimP]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

It’s a shame Labour have no real politicians amongst their ranks, if they had then they would be romping ahead in polls but as you said John, now probably isn’t the best of times to take the reins!

[Naughty Nigel]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Absolutely. Labour keep calling for a General Election... well they must, they can hardly say they don't want one can they? But privately, I'm sure, it's the last thing Corbyn wants at the moment. Why risk coming to power during one of the most unstable and uncertain periods of our history since the English Civil War? Surely it's better to let the Tories continue to tear themselves apart and at the same time take all the risks associated with Brexit? Once that's over and the blame has firmly stuck, and the Conservatives have essentially split into two opposing parties, then will be the time for Labour to fight an election. For now, all they need to do is settle down with a bag of popcorn and enjoy the spectacle.

Would it be too much to hope that enough members of both parties could form a new, centralist party to act in the national interest rather than having loonies from one end of the spectrum running the show?

As for JRM, I suspect a lot of hostility is caused by the way he speaks rather than by what he says. Good diction, or even speaking face to face has become deeply unfashionable in the Facebook age.

[Jim Ford]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Do you mean my comments re JRM? The mans an utter tw@. Most things he says and does deserve derision, sorry about that!

http://newsthump.com/2018/11/15/coup...cob-rees-mogg/

JIm

[Otto]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Let's remind ourselves of a few myths about the EU peddled by the Brexiters:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/category/mythbusters/

A list of Leave lies told during the campaign:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/long-list-leave-lies/

A list of little things that may also be important but have not seen much coverage:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/lo...little-things/

Each of the lies and little things are clickable links which explain the evidence and detail.


That is the website of the MEP Richard Corbett who ought to have a better idea than most of how the EU works:


I am Vice Chair of UK European Movement and also Chair in the European Parliament of the Labour Movement for Europe."

[wornish]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Let's remind ourselves of a few myths about the EU peddled by the Brexiters:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/category/mythbusters/

A list of Leave lies told during the campaign:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/long-list-leave-lies/

A list of little things that may also be important but have not seen much coverage:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/lo...little-things/

Each of the lies and little things are clickable links which explain the evidence and detail.


That is the website of the MEP Richard Corbett who ought to have a better idea than most of how the EU works:


I am Vice Chair of UK European Movement and also Chair in the European Parliament of the Labour Movement for Europe."

I just had a quick look at his first link. The first three points he makes in this section are just not true.

He claims the EU only makes 13% of our laws but if you follow through to the deeper analysis on FullFact its actually between 13% and 65% depending on how its measured.

He claims the EU don't force their will on member countries what ?
ask Greece, ask Cypress ask Ireland. I could go on, how many referendums did they force on them? Italy can't even pass its own budget this year.

He claims the EU laws are not made by unelected bureaucrats but they actually are. The bureaucrats are not elected by the public, and can not be removed by them either.

I will stop at that. All he is doing is trying to protect his gravy train of a job and his gold plated pension.

Probably find that the EU funds his website on expenses as well.

[Gate Keeper]

[Grumpy Hec]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Would it be too much to hope that enough members of both parties could form a new, centralist party to act in the national interest rather than having loonies from one end of the spectrum running the show?

As for JRM, I suspect a lot of hostility is caused by the way he speaks rather than by what he says. Good diction, or even speaking face to face has become deeply unfashionable in the Facebook age.

Dealing with the second point regarding JRM first if I may. If only it was that simple. Whilst, for some people I suspect you may well be correct I personally regard much of what he says as the problem along with the staggering arrogance and pomposity with which it is presented. He presents this persona of being oh so terribly reasonable when the opposite, IMHO, is the case. Any man who can publicly state that a raped women should not have the right to choose an abortion if she so wishes deserves nothing but contempt. I do acknowledge that he qualified the statement by saying that he would not seek to push such a law through parliament and for that he deserves some measure of respect. He also earns my respect for being consistent, even if I dislike what he is consistent about, but that fact that he holds such views is reason to question his whole outlook on life.

As regards the centre party. Oh yes please.

Both main parties have shown they are only interested in their own power base, as both individuals and and parties, to the detriment of UK plc. The Tories lead in that particular race but Labour are only a hairs breadth behind. Neither are likely to get my vote as long as I remain on the earth unless one or both show massive change which I consider unlikely.


Hec

[Jax]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Excellent ! A second referendum, or a third or fourth, would not be democratic

Jax

[TimP]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Would it be too much to hope that enough members of both parties could form a new, centralist party to act in the national interest rather than having loonies from one end of the spectrum running the show?

As for JRM, I suspect a lot of hostility is caused by the way he speaks rather than by what he says. Good diction, or even speaking face to face has become deeply unfashionable in the Facebook age.

[Jim Ford]

Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Excellent ! A second referendum, or a third or fourth, would not be democratic

We get a 'referendum' on the government at least every 4 years - it's called a General Election' and is considered to be democratic!

Jim