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Stop and search

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  • Stop and search

    I spotted a picture on Shutterchance yesterday, on this site http://robthomas.shutterchance.com/archive.php

    The photographer hadn't given any clue as to why he'd shown a picture of the word "terrorism" circled on a form. He's now added some more details.

    I won't try to paraphrase his experience, but I've got his consent to share it with you.

    He's written it up on a blog http://robthomasphotography.blogspot.com/
    - my pictures -

  • #2
    Re: Stop and search

    Thanks for sharing.....



    Its actions like this that make one wonder if its worth 'persuing' our hobby and continue to take pictures of the things we enjoy, be it our children playing in the park, or the modern achitecture in the city centre.

    They are very worring times for the innocent photographer.

    i have been stopped a number of times in manchester centre. Dependant on the person stopping me, i have a number of responses.

    If its a PC (Not a PCSO) and they are aware of the law, and the rights of photographers, then i am pleasent.

    If its a 'rent-a-cop' or a 'jobsworth' security guard that has trouble differentiating their backside from their elbow, then i'm not so pleasent. I let them know my rights and inform them that if they are not happy they are quite welcome to contact the police for clarification.

    If i'm going into somewhere like 'The Printworks' then i will seek out the security guard and gain permission.






    Chris

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Stop and search

      Has he made a complaint to the police?

      I would have done. At the very least the offending officer would be saddled with some extra paperwork for his troubles.

      If you are approached by an officer, don't forget to record his or her details for future reference.

      Ian
      Founder and editor of:
      Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
      Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
      Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
      Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

      Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
      Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
      Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
      NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
      sigpic

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      • #4
        ---------------

        Naughty Nigel


        Difficult is worth doing

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Stop and search

          Nigel,

          You have a PM

          Graham

          We often repeat the mistakes we most enjoy...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Stop and search

            If that happened to me, I'd seriously consider writing to my MP, Watchdog - whoever...

            I did take an accusation of a road offence to court once and though I did lose (probably because I represented myelf) I did get a very lenient fine, indicating that the magistrates were sympathetic.

            Ian
            Founder and editor of:
            Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
            Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
            Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
            Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

            Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
            Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
            Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
            NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Stop and search

              Makes my blood boil.
              My son was a baker, leaving home around 5am on his bike. He was stopped countless times by the police who got him to empty his bag, time and time again. And not pleasant, it was obvious they thought he was a burglar up no good.
              Ironicaly the same pc's would call in at his shop around 6 for a cuppa and a sarnie, when one asked, 'haven't I seen you somewhere before', he was able to say, 'yes, you stopped me this morning, yesterday and every day I can remember!'
              He was in an ideal position to help the police if he saw anything suspicious but due to his experience would not even if he had info about a crime. They bring it one themselves.
              The shame of it is that it is the public that suffer due to the attitude of the police.
              sigpicDave

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Stop and search

                I have to agree with everytyhing said so far - where do they get those arrogance pills that they must feed the recruits

                I had trouble after being knocked off a motorbike by a police car and then after they had paid for the repairs ( I had witnesses who confirmed to the senior officer that I had been in the right) I was stopped about every week in different places by different officers - it kept going until I got rid of that bike.

                I am a lot more knowledgeable re the law now and will not even pass the time of day with a police offiicer without taking a note of his number and the time and place.

                As a regular member of the local PACT meeting the local PCSO's have all felt my wrath when they misquote the law and I'm starting to get them trained in the correct responses (yes sir!). I pushed them a bit at the last meeting standing outside the village hall taking pictures with a 70-300 but none of them bit so that was a quiet meeting !

                Regards
                Andy
                My Kit (OK I'm a hoarder...)
                4/3 E500, E510, E30 + 35macro, 50macro, 7-14, 11-22, 14-45 (x2), 14-54, 40-150 (both types), 50-200, 70-300, 50-500,
                m 4/3 EM1MkII + 60 macro, 12-100 Pro
                FL20, FL36 x2 , FL50, cactus slaves etc.
                The Boss (Mrs Shenstone) E620, EM10-II, 14-41Ez, 40-150R, 9 cap and whatever she can nick from me when she wants it

                My places
                http://www.shenstone.me.uk
                http://landroverkaty.blogspot.com/
                https://vimeo.com/shenstone
                http://cardiffnaturalists.org.uk/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Stop and search

                  The terrorists don't need to take any action at present - the misguided police are doing a mighty fine job for them in curtailing freedom, repressing rights and undermining our heritage of tolerence and understanding that taken 800 long years to evolve since Magna Carta.

                  It's time that the Police learnt that they are paid (by us!) to serve us, not govern us. If any lowly sergeant (failed to make Inspector, then?) of the type that intimidated Rob Thomas thinks otherwise, then it's time he was disciplined, taught how to do his job properly, made to publicly show some contrition and acknowledge he is fortunate to retain his job. Regretably, it's only by making official complaints that idiots like this who wear the uniform but don't fill it can be put back in their proper place. Which is probably litter patrol!

                  Excuse the rant, but this type of situation makes me very angry!
                  John

                  "A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there � even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Stop and search

                    Originally posted by Zuiko View Post
                    The terrorists don't need to take any action at present - the misguided police are doing a mighty fine job for them in curtailing freedom, repressing rights and undermining our heritage of tolerence and understanding that taken 800 long years to evolve since Magna Carta.

                    It's time that the Police learnt that they are paid (by us!) to serve us, not govern us. If any lowly sergeant (failed to make Inspector, then?) of the type that intimidated Rob Thomas thinks otherwise, then it's time he was disciplined, taught how to do his job properly, made to publicly show some contrition and acknowledge he is fortunate to retain his job. Regretably, it's only by making official complaints that idiots like this who wear the uniform but don't fill it can be put back in their proper place. Which is probably litter patrol!

                    Excuse the rant, but this type of situation makes me very angry!
                    Well ranted John, you're a 'roaring, ranting raver' (now that's a reference for old counter culturalists to recall).

                    Any society whose 'authorities' forget that it exists by consent and attempt to 'impose' control and order (except very temporarily) is on a quick road to ruin. At the end of the day there are far more bricks than there are either policemen or politicians.

                    It is a paranoid society that believes it's own population are its enemies to be monitored and controlled.

                    Nick
                    Nick Temple-Fry

                    Medicine as a science ranks somewhere between archaeology and economics.

                    www.theChurchPhotographer.co.uk 90 Churches -- Fairford St Mary's, exceptionally splendid
                    www.temple-fry.co.uk

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Stop and search

                      You would only have been charged with wasting Police time if the magistrate had decided you were guilty of a traffic offence and trying to avoid paying a "fair" fine. You had good enough reason to claim innocence and it's their responsibility to prove you were guilty "beyond reasonable doubt".

                      You, quite reasonably, presumed that the driver was a mechanic. There were two things you should have done, and one was to find out why your car was on the road when it should have been in a garage. Did you give them consent to use it?

                      Originally posted by Ian
                      Has he made a complaint to the police?

                      I would have done. At the very least the offending officer would be saddled with some extra paperwork for his troubles.

                      If you are approached by an officer, don't forget to record his or her details for future reference.
                      I only know what he's written on his blog. I have suggested he might like to contact Amateur Photographer who seem to have an archive of this sort of treatment.

                      It isn't nice though, to think that the Environmental Protest at the power station (which is mentioned on the Greenpeace Blog) had this wider impact on ordinary people, going about ordinary business, and who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

                      Does Rob Thomas have to think himself lucky that the Police didn't turn up at his house, impound his computer and photographic equipment? Because that's the way things seem to be going.

                      I hadn't realised that "Protesters" were considered terrorists. It's quite a chilling thought isn't it?
                      - my pictures -

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Stop and search

                        What amazes and scares me is how much the principles of many in government has changed since they were young.

                        I remember Harriet Harman from when she was involved in NCCL (National Campaign for Civil Liberties) issuing guidelines in the Red Book (the NCCL guide to Civil Liberties) about how to campaign against the state and the limit of police powers to obstruct/prevent you.

                        Jack Straw - when he was the most reviled member of the National Union of Students. Condemned by everyone from the BBC to the Daily Mail.

                        I was at the National Council meeting when Peter Hain defected from the Liberals to join the Labour party (his justification was by the way was identical to Sarumans appeal to Gandalf - "there is a power rising in the east' ' we may deplore its actions' 'in time we'll grow strong and able to control it').

                        We used to talk about liberties (which is freedom governed by responsibility), we now navigate a minefield of 'rights' (permissions constrained within the wording of the law).

                        Now - this really is a rant.

                        I have an anger akin to that of 'TreeBeard'

                        'They aught to know better'

                        Nick
                        Last edited by Nick Temple-Fry; 23rd October 2008, 12:19 AM. Reason: was to is
                        Nick Temple-Fry

                        Medicine as a science ranks somewhere between archaeology and economics.

                        www.theChurchPhotographer.co.uk 90 Churches -- Fairford St Mary's, exceptionally splendid
                        www.temple-fry.co.uk

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Stop and search

                          Originally posted by Nick Temple-Fry View Post
                          What amazes and scares me is how much the principles of many in government has changed since they were young.

                          I remember Harriet Harman from when she was involved in NCCL (National Campaign for Civil Liberties) issuing guidelines in the Red Book (the NCCL guide to Civil Liberties) about how to campaign against the state and the limit of police powers to obstruct/prevent you.

                          Jack Straw - when he was the most reviled member of the National Union of Students. Condemned by everyone from the BBC to the Daily Mail.

                          I was at the National Council meeting when Peter Hain defected from the Liberals to join the Labour party (his justification was by the way was identical to Sarumans appeal to Gandalf - "there is a power rising in the east' ' we may deplore its actions' 'in time we'll grow strong and able to control it').

                          We used to talk about liberties (which is freedom governed by responsibility), we now navigate a minefield of 'rights' (permissions constrained within the wording of the law).

                          Now - this really is a rant.

                          I have an anger akin to that of 'TreeBeard'

                          'They aught to know better'

                          Nick
                          Must be a night for ranting!

                          Sadly, the bright young interlects you mention all prostituted their principles for ambition and power. In fairness to the names singled out they are in good company with just about the whole of the political establishment. But we are used to ineptitute, double standards, lies, deceit, lack of morals and principles from our politicians. What concerns me is that we used to have a police force we respected and trusted, a police force that was honest, unbiased, competent and respectful of the rights of the citizens it served. How many of those qualities can we credit them with now? Would you trust a policeman? If sections of white, middle-class, middle-aged, middle England feel this way, what chance have black, Asian or Muslim youngsters from deprived backgrounds?

                          In my opinion, rather than give the police yet more anti-terrorist powers we should strip them of the additional powers they already have. I do not say that lightly, because terrorism remains a very real threat and those powers, in the hands of a competent and responsible police force are really needed. But as it stands the police do not seem to have a clue how to use those powers against the real culprits and, worse, systematically abuse those powers to intimidate ordinary citizens going about their lawful activities.

                          Just consider this question. What has done the most long term damage to the USA - the 9/11 terrorist atrocity? Or the undermining of the country's whole tradition of fairness, human rights and government acting within the legal safegaurds of it's constitution by the abomination of Guantanamo Bay that defiles every principle of Western democracy and freedom?
                          John

                          "A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there � even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Stop and search

                            Originally posted by Zuiko View Post
                            Must be a night for ranting!

                            Sadly, the bright young interlects you mention all prostituted their principles for ambition and power. In fairness to the names singled out they are in good company with just about the whole of the political establishment. But we are used to ineptitute, double standards, lies, deceit, lack of morals and principles from our politicians. What concerns me is that we used to have a police force we respected and trusted, a police force that was honest, unbiased, competent and respectful of the rights of the citizens it served. How many of those qualities can we credit them with now? Would you trust a policeman? If sections of white, middle-class, middle-aged, middle England feel this way, what chance have black, Asian or Muslim youngsters from deprived backgrounds?

                            In my opinion, rather than give the police yet more anti-terrorist powers we should strip them of the additional powers they already have. I do not say that lightly, because terrorism remains a very real threat and those powers, in the hands of a competent and responsible police force are really needed. But as it stands the police do not seem to have a clue how to use those powers against the real culprits and, worse, systematically abuse those powers to intimidate ordinary citizens going about their lawful activities.

                            Just consider this question. What has done the most long term damage to the USA - the 9/11 terrorist atrocity? Or the undermining of the country's whole tradition of fairness, human rights and government acting within the legal safegaurds of it's constitution by the abomination of Guantanamo Bay that defiles every principle of Western democracy and freedom?
                            Sadly John you have hit the nail on the head.

                            I've spent the hours I should have been sleeping in titivating some unexceptional photos of a church. My interests include sailing, nature and photography. I should have been classed as a harmless, if obsessive anorak, of the sort who may note down railway engine numbers on a saturday afternoon.

                            I'm 50, I'm comfortable, no one is threatening me.

                            If I'm worried and angry then....

                            I really dont know anymore, but this can't be defeat for liberal britain.

                            Nick
                            Nick Temple-Fry

                            Medicine as a science ranks somewhere between archaeology and economics.

                            www.theChurchPhotographer.co.uk 90 Churches -- Fairford St Mary's, exceptionally splendid
                            www.temple-fry.co.uk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Stop and search

                              From what I can see, there are two quite separate, but inter-related things going on here:

                              Firstly, it seems to me that the present government is keen to use the [perceived] terrorist threat along with every other opportunity to restrict our liberties, and indeed, to control our everyday lives. In short, they are a bunch of control freaks who are using the terrorist atrocities of 9/11 and 7/7 as justification for controlling us.

                              The fact is, this Labour government has introduced legislation that no other government would have ever dared to propose, let alone enforce. And furthermore, because it is a Labour government, they know they can get away with imposing legislation that no other party would ever dare to contemplate.

                              Take the smoking ban as an example: If Maggie Thatcher had tried to stop people smoking in pubs and working men’s clubs she would have been branded ‘anti working class’; and I have little doubt there would have been rioting on the streets. But a Labour government was able to introduce this legislation with barely a whimper of opposition.

                              This government has also been very careful to introduce legislation that would be very difficult for any subsequent government to repeal. Take the Fox Hunting bill for example. Personally I don’t have a strong view either way on this matter, but I think we can be sure that if fox hunting were, lets say, ‘a bizarre ritual practiced by gays, lesbians and ethnic minorities’ the present government would never have dared to push the bill through parliament.

                              In other words, think of the votes, not the voters!

                              Returning to the more mundane matter of speeding fines, is this not simply a case of using road safety as an excuse for raising very large amounts of revenue from people who are usually traceable, and who have no option but to pay up?

                              When I visited the Police office at Middlesbrough to view our photographs, the officer had to sort through several huge rolls of film to find the three exposures concerned, which took nearly an hour. Whilst doing this he told me that they had issued over 1,200 speeding tickets on the shift in question, which at £60 a time is not a bad day's work.

                              However, it is a well known fact that at least one in four of the vehicles using the roads in the Middlesbrough area is being driven illegally. It is also well known that most of the accidents in the Middlesbrough area involve these illegally driven vehicles. So why only target the drivers of legally registered vehicles?

                              The obvious answer is that it is easy revenue. However, being ever so slightly cynical about the present government, I do sometimes wonder whether the whole system is conspired for the benefit of those who are most likely to vote for them.

                              In other words, think of the votes, not the voters!

                              On a totally unrelated subject, users of company cars will know that the present government has introduced swingeing taxes on company cars; even where the vehicle is predominantly used for business purposes. This of course is ‘justified’ by the government on the grounds of preventing climate change. Meanwhile, those who use company vans for private mileage, (including 4X 4’s that are not classed as cars) have been made virtually exempt from company car tax.

                              Now, having already admitted that I am ever so slightly cynical about the present government, I wonder which political party the average white van driver is most likely to support?

                              Think of the votes, not the voters!
                              Last edited by Naughty Nigel; 23rd October 2008, 10:59 AM.
                              ---------------

                              Naughty Nigel


                              Difficult is worth doing

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