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Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

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  • #31
    Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

    Originally posted by wornish View Post
    Simply having more pixels reaches a point of no return. The smaller the pixel the less light falls on it in a given exposure.
    Whilst it's true that as its size reduces each pixel captures less light, it's not true to say that s/n ratios at the sensor level have worsened as Mp counts have increased. In fact, the opposite is demonstrably true.

    Originally posted by wornish View Post
    I think that Google is showing the way forward. They are using high speed, in-phone, stacking and pixel binning to capture more dynamic range and reduce noise at the same time. Oly is also trying a different approach with their Hi-Res stuff.
    Multi-frame capture and PP is indeed a very useful technique for all sorts of things (HDR, noise reduction, focus stacking, ...), but it's never going to work for taking shots of stuff that moves (birds, animals, sports, cars etc).
    Paul
    E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
    flickr
    Portfolio Site
    Instagram

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    • #32
      Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

      Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
      Well, it definitely has to be true that a point will be reached when more pixels is too many, but I don't think we've got there yet. The problem is that as tech evolves, there's always the temptation to say that it's now as good as it ever needs to be - but then tech moves again and statements made in the past look foolish.
      Yes. Digital seems to have completely changed our photographic expectations.

      In the days of film the vast majority of amateurs and a lot of professionals 'made do' with 35 mm. New emulsions came along with reduced grain, better contrast and so forth but otherwise most photographers lived with the camera bodies that they had and obsessed about new lenses. From the 1970's onwards very few even thought about medium format.

      Digital is already vastly superior to 35 mm film in almost every respect, and has been for some time yet we still crave bodies with more pixels.
      ---------------

      Naughty Nigel


      Difficult is worth doing

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      • #33
        Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

        Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
        Yes. Digital seems to have completely changed our photographic expectations.
        For the worse. In fact I'd say the worst thing that happened to photography in the last 30 years was the development of solid state sensors.

        Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
        Digital is already vastly superior to 35 mm film in almost every respect, and has been for some time yet we still crave bodies with more pixels.
        You mean the straight line response curve of a digital sensor is superior to the 'S' shaped transfer function of film emulsion.
        Steve

        on flickr

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        • #34
          Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

          Originally posted by Ricoh View Post
          For the worse. In fact I'd say the worst thing that happened to photography in the last 30 years was the development of solid state sensors.
          I'm not sure I would entirely agree with that Steve. I love using film but digital has brought the joys of 'satisfying' photography within the reach of many more people than would have been possible with film, although I accept that has some negative connotations as well.

          Without digital the film manufacturers would have continued pushing the same old stuff, whereas digital has forced them to up their game by producing some superb new emulsions.

          Originally posted by Ricoh View Post
          You mean the straight line response curve of a digital sensor is superior to the 'S' shaped transfer function of film emulsion.
          No; I am thinking more of the sheer resolution and image clarity provided by current digital cameras and the lack of dust, scratch marks and other hindrances of film. Some may see these as advantages, but I would rather start off with the best possible source material.

          I would also question whether the response curves of high contrast transparency films such as Velvia are so much better than digital sensors. They are certainly very little more forgiving!
          ---------------

          Naughty Nigel


          Difficult is worth doing

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

            Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
            Well, it definitely has to be true that a point will be reached when more pixels is too many, but I don't think we've got there yet.
            Agreed and you've only got to look as far as the quality of output resolution achieved with Sigma's Merrill DP1, 2 and 3 with the APSC Foveon sensor in a very compact package.
            At low ISOs these cameras compare very favourably with output from bayer sensor 35 mm cameras in the 30 to 36 MB range (and possibly more) using high quality lenses.

            My experience was that achieving that high quality output was not difficult either (I had all three Sigmas at one point) providing you kept an eye on shutter speeds.

            I think that micro 4/3rds is definitely capable of handling this rumoured resolution hike and very well too.

            Edit: One of my favourites from my DP1M
            Welford Church 3rd February by Huw Prosser, on Flickr
            Regards Huw


            Olympus equipment
            Capture One Pro
            My flickr

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

              Originally posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
              I'm not sure I would entirely agree with that Steve. I love using film but digital has brought the joys of 'satisfying' photography within the reach of many more people than would have been possible with film, although I accept that has some negative connotations as well.

              Without digital the film manufacturers would have continued pushing the same old stuff, whereas digital has forced them to up their game by producing some superb new emulsions.



              No; I am thinking more of the sheer resolution and image clarity provided by current digital cameras and the lack of dust, scratch marks and other hindrances of film. Some may see these as advantages, but I would rather start off with the best possible source material.

              I would also question whether the response curves of high contrast transparency films such as Velvia are so much better than digital sensors. They are certainly very little more forgiving!
              The negative impact of digital is more to do with the proliferation of dreadful images spread across the 'net, not the technology per se. Prior to digital, clicking the shutter willy-nilly was an expensive business, so photographers made sure about their composition before exposing. Most of the discipline has flown out of the window, unfortunately, the new game in town is to click, over sharpen, over saturate and share it quick!
              Don't use reversal so don't give it much thought - over than cross processing it at some stage. (Out of interest, maybe, I've seen some interesting C41 -> E6 results, ie cross processing in the opposite direction).
              Steve

              on flickr

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

                Originally posted by Greytop View Post
                Agreed and you've only got to look as far as the quality of output resolution achieved with Sigma's Merrill DP1, 2 and 3 with the APSC Foveon sensor in a very compact package.
                At low ISOs these cameras compare very favourably with output from bayer sensor 35 mm cameras in the 30 to 36 MB range (and possibly more) using high quality lenses.

                My experience was that achieving that high quality output was not difficult either (I had all three Sigmas at one point) providing you kept an eye on shutter speeds.

                I think that micro 4/3rds is definitely capable of handling this rumoured resolution hike and very well too.
                Your point about Fovean is a good one Huw. I had a DP1m for a short time and the output at low ISO was stunning. Mono conversions in particular were breathtaking:


                Scottish Kirk by Paul Kaye, on Flickr



                Man's Best Friend by Paul Kaye, on Flickr

                Except for IQ though, everything else about the DP1m was awful. But if I could get that level of IQ with my Oly setup, I'd be a very happy bunny!
                Paul
                E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
                flickr
                Portfolio Site
                Instagram

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                • #38
                  Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

                  Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
                  Except for IQ though, everything else about the DP1m was awful. But if I could get that level of IQ with my Oly setup, I'd be a very happy bunny!
                  Can't say I disagree, though the DPx Merrills had a character that wasn't always endearing, the output was pretty stunning at ISO 100 - 200.
                  Regards Huw


                  Olympus equipment
                  Capture One Pro
                  My flickr

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

                    Originally posted by Ricoh View Post
                    For the worse. In fact I'd say the worst thing that happened to photography in the last 30 years was the development of solid state sensors.


                    You mean the straight line response curve of a digital sensor is superior to the 'S' shaped transfer function of film emulsion.
                    Somehow, I just knew you would come back with an answer like that.
                    Ross
                    I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
                    Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
                    Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
                    Lenses: M.ZD7-14mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens, MC-14, MC-20, M.ZD45mm f1.8, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
                    Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
                    Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).

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                    • #40
                      Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

                      Originally posted by Ricoh View Post
                      The negative impact of digital is more to do with the proliferation of dreadful images spread across the 'net, not the technology per se. Prior to digital, clicking the shutter willy-nilly was an expensive business, so photographers made sure about their composition before exposing. Most of the discipline has flown out of the window, unfortunately, the new game in town is to click, over sharpen, over saturate and share it quick!
                      Don't use reversal so don't give it much thought - over than cross processing it at some stage. (Out of interest, maybe, I've seen some interesting C41 -> E6 results, ie cross processing in the opposite direction).
                      Yes but.....

                      I enjoy doing it. That's the point is it not? As an analogy, if you took football for instance, we would only allow the 22 best players to practice the sport.

                      As for the 32MP, we honestly don't really need it, but it is progress. In the future, if I was choosing a new camera, I would really consider the 32MP, not because I need it, but it is more likely to be a better product in the end...
                      Mark Johnson

                      My Sailing Page

                      My Flickr

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

                        Originally posted by MJ224 View Post
                        Yes but.....

                        I enjoy doing it. That's the point is it not? As an analogy, if you took football for instance, we would only allow the 22 best players to practice the sport.

                        As for the 32MP, we honestly don't really need it, but it is progress. In the future, if I was choosing a new camera, I would really consider the 32MP, not because I need it, but it is more likely to be a better product in the end...
                        We're all learning are we not. I try to learn something new photographically every day, just one item and then incorporate it into my way way of seeing.

                        The hard part is finding good images on the net amongst the not so good.
                        Steve

                        on flickr

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

                          Originally posted by MJ224 View Post
                          As for the 32MP, we honestly don't really need it, but it is progress. In the future, if I was choosing a new camera, I would really consider the 32MP, not because I need it, but it is more likely to be a better product in the end...
                          Yes, I certainly don’t need 32Mp for the (mainly fast moving) stuff I do, and I’d just have to spend more on file storage and processing power, but I would be interested if as a result we gained 2/3 or more of a stop signal-to-noise ratio via pixel-binning or similar. In the typical U.K. light situation it would allow a click or two extra shutter speed that would make a big difference to critical sharpness rates for, say, birds in flight in the early morning.

                          It would need to be matched by sufficient processing speed in the body so the buffer could cope, of course.
                          Regards,
                          Mark

                          ------------------------------
                          http://www.microcontrast.com
                          Too much Oly gear.
                          Panasonic GM5, 12-32, 12-35, 15. Laowa 7.5.
                          Assorted legacy lenses, plus a Fuji X70 & a Sony A7S.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

                            I have noticed Adobe are slowly pushing the price up to 20 for the 1TB plan (10 for 20GB) !!
                            Regards
                            Michael

                            OM-D E-M5 mk2, m12-40mm f2.8, m25mm f1.8, m45mm f1.8, m60mm f2.8 Macro, M14‑150mm 1:4-5.6 II, M75-300mm MK2, Samyang 7.5mm f/3.5 fisheye

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                            • #44
                              Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

                              How's about 64MP from Samsung

                              https://petapixel.com/2019/05/09/sam...eid=2a426fcff6
                              Steve

                              on flickr

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                              • #45
                                Re: Rumours that Sony has made a 32MP MFT sensor

                                I must be clairvoyant. Seems Samsung has confirmed what I said earlier, the main benefit of more pixels will be achieved by using 2x2 pixel binning (They call it TetraCell technology) to increase dynamic range and reduce noise. The output will be a 16 MPix file.
                                Dave

                                My Flickr

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