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New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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  • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

    Originally posted by Grumpy Hec View Post
    Question is, what price do I put on them.

    How much is a 20+ year old worth ??

    As for my wife; probably wise I do not speculate
    As some things appreciate with age, you can accept that analogy for your wife too & she should be 'priceless' to you. There, does that help.
    Ross
    I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
    Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
    Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
    Lenses: M.ZD7-14mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens, MC-14, MC-20, M.ZD45mm f1.8, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
    Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
    Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).

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    • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

      With the so-called reviews of the EM1X slating the C-AF, I was very concerned that my EM1 Mk2 C-AF wouldn't work any more.
      So today I dashed off to RSPB Frampton Marsh (an excellent reserve near Boston, Lincs) to see if it was still OK. Phew! It still seems to work.

      I guess that the EM1X C-AF might work too, if you learn how to set it up!

      Brent Goose plus close up of its ring, which you can almost read after some extra processing!



      Brent Goose by Andy Johnson, on Flickr

      Andy
      bengeo.com

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      • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

        Originally posted by Bengeo View Post
        With the so-called reviews of the EM1X slating the C-AF, I was very concerned that my EM1 Mk2 C-AF wouldn't work any more.
        I note you used the 100-400 Leica too; some reviews have said that's not up to much either
        Mike
        visit my Natural History Photos website:
        http://www.botanicdesign.co.uk/Natur...story/home.htm

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        • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

          I wanted to try and bring together some points made in this thread and some of comments made by "influential" reviewers.

          Paul has been a stern critic of the E-M1X and its lauunch but still expounds the strengths of MFT in general and Olympus in particular. In a brilliantly written piece he starts:

          Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
          Overall, I can only see this launch as a fiasco... Someone high up needs to get a grip (no pun intended!) since I'd characterise the events over the last few days as being very damaging to Olympus...
          Some people have also used the word "underwhelmed" to describe their reaction to the new camera and the launch thereof.

          Originally posted by super_claret View Post
          Totally and utterly underwhelmed...
          Originally posted by Bikie John View Post
          So far I too am in the underwhelmed camp...
          I am firmly in this camp (more on this later) but I freely admit to not being in the target market - whatever that is.

          Originally posted by super_claret View Post
          ...Really struggling to see who this camera is aimed at.
          Strangely I have not seen any Olympus advertising telling us who this camera is amimed at excepts for the few teaser videos. All the written down ideas for the target market come from reviewers and the (mainly negative) comments in various forums and seem to think this camera is aimed at professionals (I can accept that) who want to capture "Planes", "Trains", and "Automobiles" (can't imagine where this idea came from). Luckily some reviewers seem to think that there has been an overall improvement in CAF in geneal.

          Paul mentions one in particular:
          Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
          Nice review here - Heather & Mathieu from Mirrorlessons...
          https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/oly...m1x-vs-em1-ii/
          And Rob gives us some of the details
          Originally posted by GyRob View Post
          Have to say Heather & Mathieu's review and it was very informative... I was under the impression that because it does not have animal / birds focus setting but (trains/planes/motors ) it was going to be the same as the OMD MKII this does not seem to be the case at all C-AF looks like it is improved and by some margin
          Mark's coverage of the various reviews is more general but his summary gives us hope
          Originally posted by drmarkf View Post
          ...It sounds from early reports that the X's BIFICF (birds in flight in critical focus) frame rate rises from around 50% to around 75%...
          although some members have yet to be convinced
          Originally posted by bigsambwfc View Post
          Seems like a decent improvement to the mk2 ,but it will need to be tested in trickier caf situations by people that know there way round oly menus and show the results too prove its worth to me...
          Originally posted by Bengeo View Post
          Interesting video from WEX: https://youtu.be/SmurxImKsx8. If you want to skip to the Red Kites section: https://youtu.be/SmurxImKsx8?t=225
          Originally posted by TonyR View Post
          So it still locks on to the background then! Crap!

          Back to the target market. Mike records Steve Huff's thoughts:

          Originally posted by MikeOxon View Post
          I agree with that. Steve Huff has written a generally favourable review but he does point out that it's aimed at a niche market. He writes: "if you want a camera that can be used, abused, rained on, frozen or dropped the EM1X is your most affordable option in this category. ...The IBIS in the EM1X is pretty otherworldly and beyond anything in any current full frame body."
          Originally posted by Beagletorque View Post
          ...If they convince some pros to move over then they will sell bodies, but more than that they will sell pro lenses where the margins are better. .... Once they have a few pros onboard the word will start to spread that m43 is good enough for most of the output required for the press and bad backs will do the rest!
          Hec has come out of his grumpy corner and makes a good point.
          Originally posted by Grumpy Hec View Post
          Now that I've watched a few reviews and got a better feel for what this camera is about I am not so against it as I was.The big point made on several of the reviews is that it is aimed at pro photographers. Of course that does not rule out use by enthusiasts but goes a long way to explain it's design and feature set.From a personal point of view I am impressed with the ergonomics. That was an area of my list of things I wanted to see as improvements on the EM1 2....
          This camera could see a big takeup by PROsumers, especially those already invested on MFT. They are talented people but don't necessarily work day in day out with their camera and sometimes look for that little bit of an edge that a new piece of kit can give them.

          Walti's comments reflect my own feelings somewhat.
          Originally posted by Walti View Post
          Well I have to admit my disappointment in the camera is entirely self generated. My expectations were not realised, however the expectations I had were more of a wish list and that of a jump in specification - i.e. a third generation EM1 PLUS, rather than (as Damien McGillicuddy puts rather well) a cousin to the MKii.The enhancements that are there make sense, as a MKii+ for PRO use and hopefully lessons learnt will filter their way down the range in the form of firmware updates...
          And here is where I think Olympus got the camera right but the marketing wrong.
          Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
          ..The E-M1x looks like a decent enough addition to the E-M1ii that adds some useful features in some areas. So, the engineering is competent. However, the marketing message from the launch has been a disaster...They didn't paint the bigger/future picture at all...
          In the Canon/Nikon world its all about moving up the camera chain getting a bigger and bigger camera with more features and faster focussing. This is not the Olympus way.

          Customers choose Olympus because of the various form factors and the intended use for their kit. You choose the E-M1 if you want a portable camera with a deepish grip; you choose and E-M5 if you want something a little more compact; you choose a PEN-F if you want a rangefinder style;you choose an E-Pxxx if you want compact and pocketable; and you choose an E-M1X if you want balance and ergonomics with large lenses. This is all about those ergonomics - you don't choose the camera just by picking from a list with ever increasing specs. (I haven't forgotten the E-M10, this comes in a minute). In fact McGillicuddy sees this and writes:
          ...the Olympus OM-D E-M1X takes up a separate branch on the family tree, the same but not the same.
          I see Olympus as having 4 ranges of cameras, based on current availability on their website and on the form factors cited above.
          1) Balance and ergomics with large lenses: E-M1X (OK, not technically availble yet but on pre-order and listed on the main website)
          2) Portable: E-M1ii
          3) Large Compact: E-M5ii, E-M10iii, E-M10ii
          4) Rangefinder/Pocketable: Pen-F, E-PL9, E-PL-8

          What we have here are 4 choices of camera format and within each format (or at least some of them) we have that idea that there are different levels of increasing specification (and price). The problem with the marketing now become apparent.


          Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
          ...this was the occasion for Olympus to paint the future of m43 in big, bright letters
          The future being an E-M1iii, an E-M5iii, and a PEN-Fii such that within each of these 4 categories the top camera was as good as it could be. In other words put as much tech as you can in the top camera in each form factor so customers can choose based on form factor and not on features.

          Paul again:
          Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
          ....I can't help thinking that a refreshed E-M5 with the 20Mp sensor, hand held hi-res and live ND would have said so much more to the system's future than the E-M1x.
          Cameras: E-M5, E-PM2, OM40, OM4Ti
          Lenses (M.Zuiko Digital): 7-14mm/F2.8, 12-40mm/F2.8, 40-150mm/F2.8+TC1.4x, 12-50mm/F3.5-6.3, 14-42mm/F3.5-5.6 EZ, M.ZD 40-150 F4-5.6 R, 75-300mm/F4.8-6.7 Mk1, 12mm/F2, 17mm/F1.8
          Lenses (OM Zuiko): 50mm/F1.2, 24mm/F2, 35mm/F2.8 shift
          Lenses (OM Fit): Vivitar Series II 28-105mm/F2.8-3.8, Sigma 21-35mm/F3.4-4.2, Sigma 35-70mm/F2.8-4, Sigma 75-200mm/F2.8-3.5, Vivitar Series II 100-500mm/F5.6-8.0, Centon 500mm/F8 Mirror
          Learn something new every day

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          • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

            That's a great post OM_User! I'm sure it's harder than it looks to us armchair experts to orchestrate a camera launch, so perhaps we should cut Olympus some slack. But, as the days roll on and we're getting more info on the camera it does seem that the marketing message has been badly garbled.

            The CAF issue is probably where this camera's fortunes will be made or broken and really Olympus needed to make sure that the message was crystal clear. Part of the problem is that there are several CAF modes and for people who are not intimately familiar with Olympus cameras (such as certain leading YouTube personality reviewers who I assume Oly chose because they had to), this is guaranteed to lead to misunderstandings.

            The abiding take-away message that most reviewers gave us was this:
            • It's the same AF hardware as the E-M1ii (121 PDAF points)
            • It's now got some fancy AI that can auto-identify a limited genre of subjects (trains, planes and automobile)


            So, we conclude that there's nothing new over the E-M1ii unless we are into photographing these subjects. But, I think in reality the truth is this:
            • The AI stuff is an extension of CAF+Tracking. We all know that CAF+Tracking has been useless from the start and I don't think anyone doing wildlife photography ever uses it (but I'm no wildlife photographer so call me out if I'm wrong). Maybe with the AI it'll now be usable - which would be an enormous win. However, it won't be a real win until it works with more than just trains, planes and automobiles.

            • Regular CAF (non-tracking) does look like it's been improved. Mirrorlessons picked this up with the success stats photographing Kites in Wales and other reports are telling us that it's now much faster in low light. We also know that it's got improved control over selected focus areas and perhaps also improved auto-selection of focus areas. All these changes could well make it a much better camera for BIF, wildlife etc than the E-M1ii. But Olympus never properly made this case in the launch!


            Why didn't they produce some MARKETING MATERIAL that explained the improvements rather than waiting for Matthieu & Heather to discover it the depths of Wales? How about getting some of the engineers in front of some of the more techie reviewers so that the underlying improvements were EXPLAINED? We consumers are not completely dumb and in need of having the information spoon fed to us.

            So where are we now? Personally, I'm looking at it this way:
            • Olympus need to get the AI stuff to work on a wider range of subjects. From the Imaging Resource interview, it seems that this isn't so easy. Not only does it appear to be very labour intensive to gather the test images to help the computer learn, but it appears that the algorithm needs lots of CPU power and also lots of memory to hold the image database. Maybe they can get past these issues and it'll be fine. But I'm asking myself why the Nikon D500, which has probably 1/100th of the CPU and memory power of the E-M1x delivers class-leading CAF already and has been doing so for several years. Also, if I understand it, you simply place your subject under the focus point and press and it very reliably tracks it. Maybe this AI stuff is actually too complicated? Time will tell.

            • In the interim, Olympus need to get the message out that the regular non-tracking, non-AI version of CAF is much improved. Get some dyed-in-the-wool wildlife photographers to test and publish their views. Then us consumers will start to believe.

            • Finally, even the faithful are starting to get jittery about the future of m43 - just read the forums. I read somewhere that Olympus's share of the market has fallen by about 40%. The way to fix this is to get back to the core value proposition of m43 - a fantastic, high quality COMPACT system. Olympus's slogan "Reduced to Perfection" is absolutely spot on and they need to get back to that.
            Paul
            E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
            flickr
            Portfolio Site
            Instagram

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            • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

              Sadly, I think the hand-held hi-res and live ND need the power of the second processor, big batteries, and big body with heat pipe to dissipate the heat. At the moment anyway.

              At least the E-M1X processors sound very flexible, so if they decide there is a better way of doing the AI, and have the resources to implement it, it could come as a firmware update in future.
              Bruce

              http://flickr.com/photos/bruce-clarke/

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              • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

                Originally posted by Bruce Clarke View Post
                Sadly, I think the hand-held hi-res and live ND need the power of the second processor, big batteries, and big body with heat pipe to dissipate the heat. At the moment anyway.

                At least the E-M1X processors sound very flexible, so if they decide there is a better way of doing the AI, and have the resources to implement it, it could come as a firmware update in future.
                You might be right Bruce, but I'm hoping that's not the case. The HHHR is about post capture stacking and I suspect this doesn't need dual quad core processors. The live DR sounds like an extension of live composite so it should be possible without additional hardware, even if that means losing the preview capability.
                Paul
                E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
                flickr
                Portfolio Site
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                • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-soi...ature=youtu.be
                  Stuff from Cuba
                  More stuff from Cuba
                  It all started here

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                  • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

                    There are some very good points being made.

                    In common with Paul I do think the initial marketing has missed the mark by a wide margin. Couple that with the fact that Olympus is not fashionable in the Pro or Prosumer markets and you have a major battle to launch a camera such as this into said markets.

                    Even though I like what I can deduce about the ergonomics, although untried of course, the price range rules it out for me and I'm not even going to the viewing at my local LCE on Friday. The AF improvements are of little consequence for me as I do not do BIF or anything that would need it. Indeed I mostly focus manually using peaking as I find that works for me although the joystick on the X could well change that.

                    Like Paul I really want to see improved dynamic range and better high ISO noise. I also would like a lower base ISO and a number of software functions which, notwithstanding processor power, should not need anything substantially larger than the EM1 2. The customisable menus on the X is something I like the look of and I see no reason why that could not be released as a firmware upgrade for the 1.2.

                    So good luck to Olympus. I hope they do not catch a cold on this one and threaten the long term well being of their m43 system.

                    As I say, unless a fairy godmother comes along with some magic beans I will not even be looking despite the fact that I like the look of the overall handling.

                    Hec
                    I've worked hard to be this grumpy. It hasn't been easy at times but it's worth it.

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                    • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

                      Originally posted by Grumpy Hec View Post
                      There are some very good points being made.

                      In common with Paul I do think the initial marketing has missed the mark by a wide margin. Couple that with the fact that Olympus is not fashionable in the Pro or Prosumer markets and you have a major battle to launch a camera such as this into said markets.

                      Even though I like what I can deduce about the ergonomics, although untried of course, the price range rules it out for me and I'm not even going to the viewing at my local LCE on Friday. The AF improvements are of little consequence for me as I do not do BIF or anything that would need it. Indeed I mostly focus manually using peaking as I find that works for me although the joystick on the X could well change that.

                      Like Paul I really want to see improved dynamic range and better high ISO noise. I also would like a lower base ISO and a number of software functions which, notwithstanding processor power, should not need anything substantially larger than the EM1 2. The customisable menus on the X is something I like the look of and I see no reason why that could not be released as a firmware upgrade for the 1.2.

                      So good luck to Olympus. I hope they do not catch a cold on this one and threaten the long term well being of their m43 system.

                      As I say, unless a fairy godmother comes along with some magic beans I will not even be looking despite the fact that I like the look of the overall handling.

                      Hec
                      Couldn't have said it better. I'm not knocking Oly for trying the market which the E-M1x represents, but it's not playing to the core strengths of m43 or the current user base.

                      I also think it's time that the m43 sensor offered some improvement. On the face of it, I don't think that's technologically infeasible. Consider that the 20Mp 1" sensor in compact cameras like the Sony RX100 and the Canon G5x is about half the area of an m43 sensor but offers noise performance close to m43. Its pixel packing desnity would equate to almost a 40Mp m43 sensor.

                      So, a BSI m43 sensor with around 24Mp should offer a decent uplift I would think. That would be something that would give m43 a really big shot in the arm and would have the reviewers properly enthused. I'd rather Oly spent money on that rather than the E-M1x and this latest PP software (Olympus Workplace).
                      Paul
                      E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
                      flickr
                      Portfolio Site
                      Instagram

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                      • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

                        I think Olympus is trying to leverage the technology it has currently to expand the base pool of buyers. Most of what they have in the x is not new as such, just a development of the existing tech with some firmware wizardry. The mechanics are cheap to tweek compared to fabbing a complete new sensor. I think that will come in time but they still need to make money from the investment in the mk2 tech. Maybe 2 years and we will see xii. I do think we will see a proper firmware upgrade to the mk2, like we saw in the em1-1, but only once the x sales have peaked.
                        Stuff from Cuba
                        More stuff from Cuba
                        It all started here

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                        • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

                          Well, if Canon's predictions for the decline in sales of 'proper cameras' is borne out, Olympus and other manufacturers will have to do something special to sell enough to recoup R&D costs and stay afloat.

                          Briefly mentioned here https://petapixel.com/2019/01/28/can...eid=2a426fcff6
                          Steve

                          on flickr

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                          • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

                            Originally posted by Bruce Clarke View Post
                            Sadly, I think the hand-held hi-res and live ND need the power of the second processor, big batteries, and big body with heat pipe to dissipate the heat. At the moment anyway.
                            ...
                            Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
                            You might be right Bruce, but I'm hoping that's not the case. The HHHR is about post capture stacking and I suspect this doesn't need dual quad core processors. The live DR sounds like an extension of live composite so it should be possible without additional hardware, even if that means losing the preview capability.

                            My wish list for the E-M5iii taken from the E-M1X
                            - The 20Mp sensor for the PDAF (although I'm happy with the 16Mp size)
                            - PDAF-based CAF as good as the E-M1iii (minus the AI)
                            - AF targetting joystick
                            - An extra (ISO) button.
                            - Focus limiting on all lenses
                            - USB running/charging (without a cost extra optional grip)

                            I would also like
                            - Improved EVF and OLED screen (not LCD)
                            - Focus bracketing

                            I appreciate the size and harware limitations (for example only one processor, shorter burst rate etc) may limit some features and I am happy with that. However some functions like stacking and HHHR could be moved to post processing in OV3 or the new Olympus Workplace (am I correct in thinking multi shot panorama works this way already?) as all you need to do is take the shots.

                            For the future on sensors I think 24Mp BSI with dual ISO would be nice at some point. But picking up on my earlier (lengthy) post it should be available on all form factors. Choose the form factor and then choose the price/feature set you want within that. Don't choose the feature set and find yourself stuck with just one camera.
                            Cameras: E-M5, E-PM2, OM40, OM4Ti
                            Lenses (M.Zuiko Digital): 7-14mm/F2.8, 12-40mm/F2.8, 40-150mm/F2.8+TC1.4x, 12-50mm/F3.5-6.3, 14-42mm/F3.5-5.6 EZ, M.ZD 40-150 F4-5.6 R, 75-300mm/F4.8-6.7 Mk1, 12mm/F2, 17mm/F1.8
                            Lenses (OM Zuiko): 50mm/F1.2, 24mm/F2, 35mm/F2.8 shift
                            Lenses (OM Fit): Vivitar Series II 28-105mm/F2.8-3.8, Sigma 21-35mm/F3.4-4.2, Sigma 35-70mm/F2.8-4, Sigma 75-200mm/F2.8-3.5, Vivitar Series II 100-500mm/F5.6-8.0, Centon 500mm/F8 Mirror
                            Learn something new every day

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                            • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

                              Originally posted by pdk42 View Post
                              You might be right Bruce, but I'm hoping that's not the case. The HHHR is about post capture stacking and I suspect this doesn't need dual quad core processors. The live DR sounds like an extension of live composite so it should be possible without additional hardware, even if that means losing the preview capability.
                              From the excellent Imaging Resource article, HHHR section:
                              "The solution isn't to hold the image stationary on the camera's sensor for that long, but rather to take advantage of the natural camera movement resulting from hand-holding. In handheld high-res mode, the E-M1X lets the image move on the focal plane between exposures, then uses its ample processor horsepower to micro-align the 16 separate images with each other. (!) The camera turns on the IS system during each of the 16 individual exposures (so each individual image will be sharp), but turns it off in between them.

                              It then closely examines all 16 images, and mathematically shifts each of them as needed to render all 16 in perfect alignment. That is, shifted so that the R, G, and B sub-pixels align with each other as needed to create a 50-megapixel final super-resolution image. [And yes, Ricoh does something similar with its similar Handheld Pixel Shift Resolution function in the Pentax K-1 II DSLR, but that uses only four separate exposures to create each image, rather than 16 of them as in the E-M1X.]"

                              That sounds like it needs the dual processors, improved IS and gyros for HHHR to me. Live ND sounds more straightforward, but might still need the improved IS and gyros.
                              Bruce

                              http://flickr.com/photos/bruce-clarke/

                              Comment


                              • Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

                                Am going to Clifton Cameras, Dursley, Gloucestershire on Saturday. Very unlikely to buy since I love my EM1 2 and Pen F but want to see how big the EM1X really is!

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