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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #16  
Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by DerekW View Post
Given that we have pollution and always will have then the answer is to remove the pollution from the atmosphere in towns, boxes in the streets alongside the various other bits of street furniture containing filters and lights to break down the harmful components into less harmful components. Development of these type of products should be a high level priority.

Allow the public to buy and run the machines as well as the town / city authorities and give them tax breaks for taking on the responsibility.
Surely it is better to do this at source, on the vehicles concerned?

From what I have read over the past few days, it seems that cleaning up diesel cars to the required standard would add around 1,000 to the cost of each vehicle. Therefore the suggestion is that petrol is used for small vehicles which generally cover only short distances in and around town, (and where an additional 1,000 would be unrealistic), and that diesel is retained for larger vehicles that cover longer distances out of town, and where the cost is more sustainable.

In any case, DPF systems work more efficiently on bigger engines.
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Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

I have 2 diesels

1. Modern and expensive to me to purchase last year 2k off another would just not cut it - it would need to be more like 14k to make it worthwhile so I will just have to live with the penalty if one comes in or avoid no go zones

2. Old and classic (ex ambulance) on a limited mileage policy which I do not plan to take into London, but have "on occasion" driven into other cities on-route somewhere else. No financial incentive will get me to part with this - its one of 48 of that model ever made and its loss from the road would be a tragedy IMHO - we talk to a lot of people about the humanitarian work it did when we go to car shows and even when stopped in the street.

The trouble is that "public" transport is just not an option so often in the UK, my wife's employer moved office from out of the city to a city center location. Her 15 minute car journey became 25 (plus the walk she has do gives overall about 45 mins, but if she uses the bus it's 1.5 hours minimum, and there is no train station anywhere near where we live

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Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Precisely!

And did you know that DPD drivers (amongst others) effectively do two very similar rounds each day?

The first is for 'before 10 AM' deliveries, the second is for collections and normal deliveries.

So if you have a 'normal' delivery, DPD will drive past your front door making 'before 10 AM' deliveries, and will then come back to you later. John, our local DPD driver told me that even if I stopped him in the road, the computer system would not allow him to hand over my parcel before 10 AM, or out of sequence.
Although not perfect DPD are the gold standard in parcel delivery to my mind.
Yes they are strictly controlled but they do give you a delivery window of 1 hour which they stick to. There is always a trade off.

You are lucky to get a window of 1 day from the others
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Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Although not perfect DPD are the gold standard in parcel delivery to my mind.
Yes they are strictly controlled but they do give you a delivery window of 1 hour which they stick to. There is always a trade off.

You are lucky to get a window of 1 day from the others
I agree, DPD are very good.

However, their modus operandi, effectively involving two circuits of each area is just one good example of how vehicle miles and emissions could easily be halved for very little inconvenience.

Oh, and another idea. Take Royal Mail long distance haulage off of the roads and put it back on the railways.
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Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

My two DPD deliveries had slightly different branding - one was plain DPD, the other "DPD Local". Given the "local" depot is 60 miles away I'm not sure about that! I do agree though that DPD is probably the best of the major courier services; since they introduced their trackable one-hour delivery slots the driver has always arrived within the slot and on one occasion arrived bang on the slot start time.

Anyone else remember the Saab PR stunt where they measured the air quality coming from the exhaust of a Saab 9000 in central London and demonstrated that it was cleaner than the air going into the air filter?

I read somewhere recently (I forget where) that large diesel commercial vehicles are generally cleaner than cars because there is more space to house the kit that cleans up the exhaust, and the cost penalty as a proportion of the total is lower.
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Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Anyone else remember the Saab PR stunt where they measured the air quality coming from the exhaust of a Saab 9000 in central London and demonstrated that it was cleaner than the air going into the air filter?
Hmmmm. I wonder how that was measured? Did they sell the testing equipment to VW Audi Group afterwards?

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
I read somewhere recently (I forget where) that large diesel commercial vehicles are generally cleaner than cars because there is more space to house the kit that cleans up the exhaust, and the cost penalty as a proportion of the total is lower.
It is true that DPF systems work better on bigger engines as the regeneration cycle (when the soot is burnt off) is more effective at higher temperatures and exhaust flows. By contrast, it is probably more difficult to maintain exhaust temperature and flow on a small diesel engine.

Bigger diesels often use multiple DPF's; one for each cylinder bank.

Not so sure about the size argument though. DP filters/catalytic converters are not that big, (about the size of a 2 litre paint pot on a car engine's exhaust), so it should be possible to accommodate them easily enough alongside the engine.

My Jag has two of them so it must be twice as clean.
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Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
My Jag has two of them so it must be twice as clean.
Ah, yes, good English pollution, eh!

Oh.... 'ang on a mo'... It's Indian pollution, squire!

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  #23  
Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

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Ah, yes, good English pollution, eh!

Oh.... 'ang on a mo'... It's Indian pollution, squire!

Some people put a shot of Redex in their tanks. I add a spoonful of Mango Chutney.
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Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Dewi9 View Post
Have you got a diesel car ? Did you buy it on HM Governments recommendation ? Are you beginning to feel royally screwed ?

As an owner of diesel cars for the past 20 years (or thereabouts) I am feeling 'reet annoyed'. First the Government pushes everyone towards buying a diesel car, then the oil companies put the price of diesel up higher than petrol, despite it being cheaper to produce, and now us diesel car owners are being painted as scum.

Exactly why have the Government picked on us when a lorry (diesel) engine is typically six times as big (in capacity) than a car ? Why not pick on them ?

Also, why not consider the size of a diesel train angine. How many litres are they ? How many gallons per hour do they use ?

Has anyone thought of the impact of banning ALL diesel engines in use today ? No transport system, pasenger or freight, disaster in the agricultural sector. Plus finding all those nice shiny new cars at affordable prices for us who have to give up our cars.

Seems a typical knee jerk reaction to me.

David
New lorries and all fairly recent railway engines are fine. It is old car engines and
Car engines with fake emissions readings that are the problem.
But my understanding is that it is ship engines that are the global problem. They burn rubbish fuel that is hugely polluting. But when they get in our waters they have to switch to cleaner fuel. That says a lot.
Jeff
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Re: Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by chorleyjeff View Post
New lorries and all fairly recent railway engines are fine. It is old car engines and
Car engines with fake emissions readings that are the problem.
But my understanding is that it is ship engines that are the global problem. They burn rubbish fuel that is hugely polluting. But when they get in our waters they have to switch to cleaner fuel. That says a lot.
Jeff
Much of this is true. Heavy fuel oil is filthy stuff, but it is cheap and readily available, which shipping companies like. The fact is that some ship owners run dangerously ill-maintained vessels, and cannot even pay their crew from one month to the next, so they wouldn't welcome a move to lighter, cleaner, more expensive fuel oil.

Ironically, pollution from ship's diesel engines has increased significantly in recent years owing to increasing regulation of the biocides used in antifouling systems.

The self-polishing copolymer systems used from the 1980's to the early 2000's had provided quite remarkable reductions in hull roughness and drag, reducing fuel consumption and exhaust emissions by around 8% on the fast passenger liners of the day, but the ban on the use of tributyl tin took the industry back to the 1970's.

Perhaps the best way of reducing emissions from shipping would be to import fewer goods from China and the Far East.
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Old 18th April 2017
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Re: Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Much of this is true. Heavy fuel oil is filthy stuff, but it is cheap and readily available, which shipping companies like. The fact is that some ship owners run dangerously ill-maintained vessels, and cannot even pay their crew from one month to the next, so they wouldn't welcome a move to lighter, cleaner, more expensive fuel oil.

Ironically, pollution from ship's diesel engines has increased significantly in recent years owing to increasing regulation of the biocides used in antifouling systems.

The self-polishing copolymer systems used from the 1980's to the early 2000's had provided quite remarkable reductions in hull roughness and drag, reducing fuel consumption and exhaust emissions by around 8% on the fast passenger liners of the day, but the ban on the use of tributyl tin took the industry back to the 1970's.

Perhaps the best way of reducing emissions from shipping would be to import fewer goods from China and the Far East.
Final para. Yes.
Globalisation gives a few pence off to the consumer but at what cost?
An example. I wii have venison for tea tomorrow. It is very difficult to get UK sourced venison but very easy to get New Zealand venison. Only three hundred miles for Scottish venison but even though much of Scotland is stuffed with deer we do not eat it and when we do it is more expensive than that from the other side of the world. Just not right.
Jeff
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  #27  
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Re: Diesel Cars

How right you are about globalisation.

Just look at the price of Apple products, and they certainly don't come from Scotland.
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Re: Diesel Cars

I was reminded of this thread when I saw this on Facebook this morning:-

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  #29  
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Re: Diesel Cars

Ain't that the truth.
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Re: Diesel Cars

yebut.............

Quantity is not dealt with here.....

Answer is to walk...............
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