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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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Old 15th April 2017
Internaut Internaut is offline
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The Annual Full Frame Bug....

So who gets this? Happens about once a year, for me, but I've resisted so far.... This year's was last weekend, when I went for a photo walk with dearest sister. She's the better photographer of the siblings and recently augmented her Panasonic/Olympus kit with a 5DII and Canon film SLRs. This turned out to be a good chance to compare similar photos.

Thing is, as you move upwards through the various formats (from iPhone to the kind of large format kit that requires a donkey to carry), you do get a different look each step of the way. I don't have the language to describe this (perhaps if I was a native Chinese language speaker?) so it's hard to put into words. Perhaps a greater separation of elements within the image? If we forget the arguments about noise, ISO, dynamic range and equivalence, there are purely artistic/aesthetic reasons for trying a larger format, I think.

Anyway, this year's objections:

  • Don't want a DSLR (though the Nikon DFs in the Window at LCE, today, were sorely tempting).
  • A Sony A7 II would be ideal, but anything decent, lens wise, is eye waveringly expensive (dearest sister is doing an able job of full frame on the cheap).
  • 3:2 format: I know from the superb little Ricoh that is always in my pocket that this is a hideous format for shooting in portrait, and I lose too much of the sensor's real estate if I crop to square (and I like square).

Still might get an A7 II but, as my sister quickly found out, there's currently no real alternative (other than perhaps Fuji) for the quality and portability we currently have with Micro Four Thirds. Perhaps I've just gotten too good at talking myself out of parting with cash.
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Old 15th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

Retirement solved it for me.
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Old 15th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

Since you like the square format, have you considered a 6x6 film camera? It will make you a better photographer. Just 12 frames and every last frame counts. It's like the difference between a marksman and a machine gun operator.

If you can tolerate the 1.5 frame, what about a second hand Leica M? The M9 is quite affordable now, and Zeiss Voigtlander lenses are relatively inexpensive (compared to Leica). The M9 and the M240 are extremely portable cameras.
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Old 15th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

My personal view -
Nikon and Canon lens are indeed superb but so big and so heavy, and not inexpensive for decent quality. Yes you can get cheaper ones but they disappoint in image quality.

The Sony A7 range of cameras seem very good spec wise but lens choice is somewhat limited and again they are big, certainly expensive and also heavy so don't see the point of having a smallish body but still a big lens.

I went the other way and sold all my Nikon stuff and am now 100% M4/3 using Olympus.
Dont regret it at all. I now take my camera out almost all the time where when I had Nikon gear I found myself leaving it at home because of the weight.

The Pro lenses from Oly are getting close to the best from Nikon/Canon IMHO
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Old 15th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

Having shot a 5D/40D combo with a selection of L zooms for 5 weeks (the first week by choice, the last 4 weeks because my 4/3 kit was on a different continent) I've no interest unless someone wants to pay me serious money. Or if I want to go back to my film days and carry a backpack full of primes.
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Old 15th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
The Pro lenses from Oly are getting close to the best from Nikon/Canon IMHO
Some time ago - pre MFT - someone stated on dpreview (IRC) that a friend who worked for Zeiss, responded with "Meh!" when Canon and Nikon were mentioned, but with "Hmm!" for Olympus.

Make of that what you will,but I always understood that the 'Top Pro' FT lenses had few equals. Olympus don't make 'bottle bottom' lenses, unlike Canon!

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Old 15th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

My son has defected to a full frame Nikon, mainly for its low light capabilities.

I must say the Nikon's performance in low light is quite remarkable, but the Nikon FF outfit is also quite remarkable in terms of its size and weight!

Indeed, a Mamiya 645 is quite compact by comparison, and the Mamiya glass isn't half bad either. If I really want quality I will use my RZ67, which is even bigger and heavier than son's Nikon, but otherwise I am very happy with my EM1 and EM5 plus Pro glass.
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Old 15th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

I've never regretted selling my 5Dii and moving to Olympus:

- Sensor performs better, esp in terms of pushing shadows - the Canon 21Mp sensor of the generation in the 5Dii shows banding very easily.

- AF is way more accurate - no more front/back focusing.

- Exposure control is far better, courtesy of live view and under/over exposure indicators.

- Gear is smaller and lighter.

- IBIS is superb

- Bodies have way more features - livetime, livecomp, focus-stacking, bracketing, hi-res, ...

I recently picked up a friend's 7dii + 70-200 f2.8 and almost fell over with the weight! No way am I going back there.

The Sony A7 stuff is a lot nicer, but the bodies still don't match up to the Olympus bodies. Sure, if you're into very low light shooting or demand the highest possible DR and resolution this side of a MF camera then they make sense - but be prepared for big and expensive lenses.
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Old 16th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
My personal view -
I now take my camera out almost all the time where when I had Nikon gear I found myself leaving it at home because of the weight.

The Pro lenses from Oly are getting close to the best from Nikon/Canon IMHO
Only time I miss full frame is for star shots. When I get not so good shots from the Oly, I have the urge to visit the local camera shop and look thru their 2nd hand stuff.

Might still do that, at least you don't need a lens when fitted to the scope.......

Oly does allow the camera to live with me almost all of the time.
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
Only time I miss full frame is for star shots. When I get not so good shots from the Oly, I have the urge to visit the local camera shop and look thru their 2nd hand stuff.

Might still do that, at least you don't need a lens when fitted to the scope.......

Oly does allow the camera to live with me almost all of the time.
I actually like using the Oly for star shots attached to my scope. The Olympus Capture Software is really useful for taking long exposures or a sequence of exposures and its free!
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

What scope and mount........

Have had some reasonable results, but its me that must be inconsistent.

Missed Saturn this year alas. My location has loads of light pollution which might explain a lot.
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
What scope and mount........

Have had some reasonable results, but its me that must be inconsistent.

Missed Saturn this year alas. My location has loads of light pollution which might explain a lot.
Have a look at the thread I started here.

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42825

Haven't done any for a while due to our wonderful weather.
Mine get better as you go further in the thread. Its practice, practice practice.
There are a lot of Oly users on here who do astro.
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Old 16th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

Having used 10x8, 5x4, 8 on a roll of 620, 6x6, 645, 127, 35, half frame and 11mm. I've realised that when it comes to photography, like a lot of things in life, only the end results count for anything.

I was involved in buying cameras at work and soon realised that my Olympus kit was producing prints and slides that were every bit as good as the cameras & lenses that I was buying at work for a lot more money.

When digital came along I was very surprised to find the same was true. While the most expensive kit was better at the pixel level, when it came to printing at A4, on a 1024x768 monitor or projected, the difference was barely noticeable.

Now that I've access to a 72" HD display and 4K display, IQ difference is imperceptible from full size files from various formats.

Given the number of pixels on a 4K TV or a 5K monitor, virtually every camera files are processed down to fit these displays.

My main consideration in choice of kit is the ergonomics and ease of use, as the IQ I produce is every bit as good as the competition get with theirs...
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Old 16th April 2017
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

Shoot with the camera that is more likely to make you create images. If you feel good about the camera, if it gives you joy, it will probably reflect in the images you create. On the other hand if you use a camera you feel uncomfortable about, it's likely to have a negative affect on the pictures you create. A lot say it's just a tool, but I think the human psyche goes further.
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Re: The Annual Full Frame Bug....

You can prefer one brand of tool over another but they're still just tools.
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