Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Out of Focus area > The lounge

The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 12th April 2017
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 2,847
Thanks: 36
Thanked 397 Times in 372 Posts
Likes: 26
Liked 1,118 Times in 645 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Just a thought: if an image has been digitized can it ever be perfect?

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (12th April 2017)
  #17  
Old 12th April 2017
Bikie John's Avatar
Bikie John Bikie John is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wessex
Posts: 3,059
Thanks: 161
Thanked 514 Times in 451 Posts
Likes: 246
Liked 422 Times in 284 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

It's an image, not the thing it is an image of. It doesn't move, it isn't hot or cold, or noisy and you can't feel smell it. So in one sense it will always be a long way short of perfect.

Of course in another sense any image - no matter how rubbish - will be perfect, because to borrow that irritating management bollockspeak phrase "it is what it is"

John
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12th April 2017
Gwyver's Avatar
Gwyver Gwyver is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: nr Stockport
Posts: 1,090
Thanks: 76
Thanked 265 Times in 167 Posts
Likes: 195
Liked 273 Times in 130 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
Just a thought: if an image has been digitized can it ever be perfect?

Harold
Just another thought: If an image has been converted to grains of silver halide can it ever be perfect?
__________________
Chris
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12th April 2017
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 19,515
Thanks: 1,833
Thanked 2,783 Times in 2,142 Posts
Likes: 2,432
Liked 3,279 Times in 1,533 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyver View Post
Just another thought: If an image has been converted to grains of silver halide can it ever be perfect?
The only perfect images are those that you didn't attempt to record but are imprinted upon your memory.
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
alfbranch (12th April 2017), David M (12th April 2017), Gwyver (12th April 2017), Naughty Nigel (12th April 2017)
  #20  
Old 12th April 2017
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3,438
Thanks: 382
Thanked 294 Times in 264 Posts
Likes: 443
Liked 916 Times in 553 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

I think the point is this: the content of the photograph is far more important than technical perfection, whether it be the pleasing grain of film due to the random distribution, or the rather ugly regular noise of digital at high ISO (on some cameras).

Look at the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson for example. I'm thinking of the iconic puddle jumper with the Eithel Tower as a backdrop (well I think it was HCB, but perhaps I'm mixing him up with another artist). The image is far from perfect, slightly soft in focus, but the content and composition are purely magical. As another example, look at the work of Capa, particularly the D-Day landings. Many are out of focus but undeniably the content totally overshadows the technical deficiency.

Buying the best and the latest equipment capable of wonderful image quality is not going to make a person with a poor photographic eye into a great, or even a good photographer. I think you're either blessed with a good photographic eye or you're not, and no amount of technical perfection will make up for a poor eye.
__________________
Steve

on flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
AMc (12th April 2017), Naughty Nigel (12th April 2017)
  #21  
Old 12th April 2017
pdk42's Avatar
pdk42 pdk42 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 3,248
Thanks: 324
Thanked 703 Times in 538 Posts
Likes: 44
Liked 2,654 Times in 941 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

At the end of the day the whole concept of a "good image" is subjective and not amenable to objective analysis. As such, questions about technical excellence and how important it is will inevitably be hard to answer definitively.

For sure, there are some elements of an image which most humans will find pleasing - for example compositional guidelines such as leading lines, rule of thirds etc. I think that technical issues fall into this camp too. It can't be denied that all other things being equal, a sharp and well exposed image will always be better than one that isn't. Of course, there are degrees of perfection and compromise so there's no definitive answer there either. Just how out-of-focus can an otherwise excellent image be before it is no longer excellent?

On the bigger point of what makes a fantastic image - it's clearly true that some people (artists) consistently produce images that "work" whilst lesser mortals have a lower hit rate. I'd argue that both will benefit from better technical execution of those images. Can good technique make a poor image good? - of course not. Can good technique make a half-decent image better? - absolutely. Can good technique make an excellent image an award winner? - I believe it can.

So, it seems to me that technical excellence is not the be-all and end-all - but IMHO it's an almost-necessary part of a truly excellent image. Sometimes you can get away with some degree of imperfection and the better you are as an artist the more leeway you'll have. For dorks like me though - I need the technical excellence to help me on the way!
__________________
Paul
E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
wornish (12th April 2017)
  #22  
Old 12th April 2017
Bikie John's Avatar
Bikie John Bikie John is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wessex
Posts: 3,059
Thanks: 161
Thanked 514 Times in 451 Posts
Likes: 246
Liked 422 Times in 284 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
It can't be denied that all other things being equal, a sharp and well exposed image will always be better than one that isn't.
To play devil's advocate for a moment - I think the impact of Robert Capa's photos of the D-Day landings is greatly enhanced by the mistake that the processing lab made with his films. They would still have been great photos without the error, and there would have been more of them, but they are so much more powerful as they are.

Quote:
Sometimes you can get away with some degree of imperfection and the better you are as an artist the more leeway you'll have. For dorks like me though - I need the technical excellence to help me on the way!
Yup - good summing up!

John
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12th April 2017
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 5,013
Thanks: 244
Thanked 298 Times in 255 Posts
Likes: 1,402
Liked 1,013 Times in 696 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyver View Post
Just another thought: If an image has been converted to grains of silver halide can it ever be perfect?
Yes of course, every time.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Ricoh (12th April 2017)
  #24  
Old 12th April 2017
wornish's Avatar
wornish wornish is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,286
Thanks: 133
Thanked 113 Times in 97 Posts
Likes: 517
Liked 280 Times in 143 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
Just a thought: if an image has been digitized can it ever be perfect?

Harold
Halide isn't magic nor is Digital, they are just different technologies.

So short answer to your question is Yes.
Perfection is in the eyes of the beholder - or so the saying goes.
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12th April 2017
David M's Avatar
David M David M is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: A Brit now living in Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 5,911
Thanks: 38
Thanked 630 Times in 596 Posts
Likes: 139
Liked 1,024 Times in 637 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
The only perfect images are those that you didn't attempt to record but are imprinted upon your memory.
So true, some of my most memorable wildlife encounters have been when I didn't reach for the camera.
__________________
It's the image that's important, not the tools used to make it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
alfbranch (12th April 2017)
  #26  
Old 12th April 2017
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 3,438
Thanks: 382
Thanked 294 Times in 264 Posts
Likes: 443
Liked 916 Times in 553 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

And some of the best fish I nearly caught happened when I was assembling the fishing rod.
__________________
Steve

on flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
alfbranch (12th April 2017), Naughty Nigel (13th April 2017), OM USer (13th April 2017)
  #27  
Old 12th April 2017
alfbranch's Avatar
alfbranch alfbranch is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Whitehaven Cumbria
Posts: 5,219
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 645 Times in 607 Posts
Likes: 704
Liked 1,475 Times in 578 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

I rather like this shot


Free-lensing-3 by Alf Branch, on Flickr

Here is the blurb I posted with it

Free lensing taking shots with the lens detached from the camera in this case it is a 28mm Olympus OM fit manual lens with a 4/3 DSLR so the lens does not fit anyway.
__________________
OMD E-M1 OMD E-M5II MMF3 12-40 pro 12-50 EZ 14-42 EZ 9-18 f4.0 -5.6 40 -150f4-f5.6 R 60mm f2.8 macro Sigma 105 f2.8 macro Holga 60mm plastic Holga pinhole lens lens and a XZ-1 Olympus - 35 SP Trip 35 Pen EEs OM2sp

I nice view does not mean a good photograph. My FLickr

Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (13th April 2017), OM USer (13th April 2017), Ricoh (13th April 2017), Zuiko (13th April 2017)
  #28  
Old 13th April 2017
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 2,847
Thanks: 36
Thanked 397 Times in 372 Posts
Likes: 26
Liked 1,118 Times in 645 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyver View Post
Just another thought: If an image has been converted to grains of silver halide can it ever be perfect?
It will never meet the Gold Standard!

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (13th April 2017), Ricoh (13th April 2017)
  #29  
Old 13th April 2017
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 5,013
Thanks: 244
Thanked 298 Times in 255 Posts
Likes: 1,402
Liked 1,013 Times in 696 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
It will never meet the Gold Standard!

Harold
Kodak Gold was crap in my humble opinion. (Do they still make it?)

Velvia though, was on another level altogether.

I am also rather partial to Kodak Tri-X, Fuji Acros and Ilford Pan F.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 13th April 2017
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 5,013
Thanks: 244
Thanked 298 Times in 255 Posts
Likes: 1,402
Liked 1,013 Times in 696 Posts
Re: Technical perfection doesn't truly matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfbranch View Post
I rather like this shot


Free-lensing-3 by Alf Branch, on Flickr

Here is the blurb I posted with it

Free lensing taking shots with the lens detached from the camera in this case it is a 28mm Olympus OM fit manual lens with a 4/3 DSLR so the lens does not fit anyway.
Looks like a Volvo driver's view of the world.

You should apply for a grant from the Arts Council.

Better still, use the same technique to photograph piles of bricks, dirty nappies and old car tyres, and then apply.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
alfbranch (13th April 2017), Ricoh (13th April 2017)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The world of technical acronyms jamie allan The lounge 4 20th June 2011 01:38 PM
Technical info required. David Morison Telephoto 1 16th April 2011 07:33 PM
SOLVED Technical Question Graham_of_Rainham Olympus E-3 6 8th April 2010 09:50 AM
Does Size matter.....? Jon*E Lens focus 0 20th February 2010 01:00 PM
A technical IS question.. snaarman Camera conference 6 4th February 2009 03:35 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:04 AM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2015, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger