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Looking for improvement This is the e-group critique board. If you post a picture here it will be assumed that you are looking for comprehensive technical feedback - both good and bad, but always respectful. Only post pictures here if you can deal with potentially negative constructive criticism. Anyone is qualified to comment and post feedback, and everyone is encouraged to do so. NB: "Looking for Improvement" is the place to post any pictures you would like advice on improving, no matter how bad you might think they are.

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Old 12th June 2010
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Help with noise

Took these today with an ISO of 1600 is there anything i could have done or could to to smooth them out?









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Old 13th June 2010
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Re: Help with noise

Hi Chris.

First, although there is noise I can only see it in the OOF background and then only luminence noise rather than Colour noise. I don't find it unattractive.

However, whereas we accepted film grain like golf balls at high ISO and even used it creatively, noise seems to be a preoccupation with all the camera reviewers and therefore has become a bit of a taboo. I've therefore run your first image through Dfine 2.0 to remove most, but not all, of the noise.

Original



Noise Reduction



What do you think?
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Old 13th June 2010
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Re: Help with noise

It's difficult to tell what is happenning with noise without a full understanding of how the files have been processed.

But John (Zuiko) is right this noise drops away quite easily with a noise reduction program (in my case GREYSToration in the GIMP).

Camera reviewers focus on noise because it is a measurable effect, but you will always have some noise unless both the the subject and the background is perfectly exposed, and you are not likely in insect photography to achieve that in field conditions. If it doesn't disrupt the image, then why worry?

Nick
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Old 13th June 2010
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Re: Help with noise

With macro photography noise in the OOF areas is always a problem because of the high ISO levels used, I use Neat Image, which I find works very well for this kind of work your images are sharp, I don;t know what PP you have done but I normally sharpen the image then apply noise reduction, this sounds silly but you want the image of the subject as sharp as possible but the rest not so. I also use layers on some images to achieve the results I an looking for.

Take a look at my web site and blog and you will see the results of this technique.
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Old 13th June 2010
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Re: Help with noise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
Hi Chris.

However, whereas we accepted film grain like golf balls at high ISO and even used it creatively, noise seems to be a preoccupation with all the camera reviewers and therefore has become a bit of a taboo. I've therefore run your first image through Dfine 2.0 to remove most, but not all, of the noise.

I could not agree more John and it was the film like look of the Oly files that made me change from the homogonised look from Canons files.

The photographer Guy Gowan of Photoshop fame recently said....

"I apply noise to all my images now. Its a film like texture and gives them a organic, natural texture"

It seems we are not alone in thinking that noise is not the devil it is painted to be by reviewers.
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Old 13th June 2010
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Re: Help with noise

Hi I usually duplicate the layer then apply a blurr of about 4 or 5 to it then using the history brush to paint back the sharp bits then apply a little sharpening. That way you get rid of the noise in the OOF bits and keep sharpness and detail in the sharp bits, this seems to work with most images espesicially with large prints.

Dave
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Re: Help with noise

This photo is ISO1000 and -0.3EV (because of the light) with my E/600:

This one is ISO1000 and +0.3 (Which might help a little on the noise)


What have I done with it to keep the noise down? Shoot in RAW to get more control of the processing. Make a .DNG-file and I use ACR to increase exposure, increase fill lights and increase black recovery. Reduce contrast to get a pale picture and adjust Vibrance/Saturation to you get the colours back.

Open in Photoshop and duplicate layer. Use "Soft Light" on layer blending mode and adjust opacity until you get the contrasts you want. And then I use Unsharp mask to get the final touch.
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Re: Help with noise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar View Post
This photo is ISO1000 and -0.3EV (because of the light) with my E/600:

This one is ISO1000 and +0.3 (Which might help a little on the noise)


What have I done with it to keep the noise down? Shoot in RAW to get more control of the processing. Make a .DNG-file and I use ACR to increase exposure, increase fill lights and increase black recovery. Reduce contrast to get a pale picture and adjust Vibrance/Saturation to you get the colours back.

Open in Photoshop and duplicate layer. Use "Soft Light" on layer blending mode and adjust opacity until you get the contrasts you want. And then I use Unsharp mask to get the final touch.
Not sure I understand all that but it seems to work!
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Re: Help with noise

I'm not the best person in the world trying to explain things
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Re: Help with noise

Radar, I would not expect ISO 1000 to be a problem in what are fairly good light condidtions as in your pics, I class 1/200sec @ f3.2 as fairly good light and not low light condidtions. By the way a very nice set of images.

Indeed at ISO 1600 in quite good lighting as in Chis's shots I would expect better, unless as I suspect they were underexposed.

Just to be sure I went into the garden 10 min ago with the E620 and shot this at ISO 1600. I have no idea what it is so speak up if anyone knows.

Straight raw conversion in CO5 to jpeg with no extra noise reduction added.

I thought it was not to bad as far as noise is concerned and as long as you nail the exposure then noise is not that much of a problem.

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Re: Help with noise

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Originally Posted by Paul_S View Post
Radar, I would not expect ISO 1000 to be a problem in what are fairly good light condidtions as in your pics, I class 1/200sec @ f3.2 as fairly good light and not low light condidtions. By the way a very nice set of images.

Indeed at ISO 1600 in quite good lighting as in Chis's shots I would expect better, unless as I suspect they were underexposed.

Just to be sure I went into the garden 10 min ago with the E620 and shot this at ISO 1600. I have no idea what it is so speak up if anyone knows.

Straight raw conversion in CO5 to jpeg with no extra noise reduction added.

I thought it was not to bad as far as noise is concerned and as long as you nail the exposure then noise is not that much of a problem.
Noise? What noise?
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Re: Help with noise

Conclusion is: Get your exposure right. Shoot to the right (Curve to the right of the scale)
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Re: Help with noise

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Originally Posted by Radar View Post
Conclusion is: Get your exposure right. Shoot to the right (Curve to the right of the scale)
A bit like using slide film, really.
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Old 13th June 2010
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Re: Help with noise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
Hi Chris.

First, although there is noise I can only see it in the OOF background and then only luminence noise rather than Colour noise. I don't find it unattractive.

However, whereas we accepted film grain like golf balls at high ISO and even used it creatively, noise seems to be a preoccupation with all the camera reviewers and therefore has become a bit of a taboo. I've therefore run your first image through Dfine 2.0 to remove most, but not all, of the noise.

Original



Noise Reduction



What do you think?
WOW! Thats amazing John thanks for helping me out!

for me its a massive improvement, is the software that you used free?

Chris
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Old 13th June 2010
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Re: Help with noise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_S View Post
Radar, I would not expect ISO 1000 to be a problem in what are fairly good light condidtions as in your pics, I class 1/200sec @ f3.2 as fairly good light and not low light condidtions. By the way a very nice set of images.

Indeed at ISO 1600 in quite good lighting as in Chis's shots I would expect better, unless as I suspect they were underexposed.

Just to be sure I went into the garden 10 min ago with the E620 and shot this at ISO 1600. I have no idea what it is so speak up if anyone knows.

Straight raw conversion in CO5 to jpeg with no extra noise reduction added.

I thought it was not to bad as far as noise is concerned and as long as you nail the exposure then noise is not that much of a problem.

Very nice mate!

Not sure about the exposures to be honest but i did shoot the originals in raw and PPed in Lightroom and they have been cropped in Photoshop, so i guess i would expect to see a little noise at 1600ISO
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