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  #16  
Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

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Originally Posted by Rocknroll59 View Post
Tim its a bit of everything you mention...its called re-inventing the wheel...I was in discussion about that with a business friend today, most companies suffer from it as new 'young' people bring ideas to the table which only benefits them or their carers short term to climb a ladder, and creates major problems afterwards...
Peter
And because it is all run by 'mangers' rather than 'engineers'.
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  #17  
Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

I think we also need to debunk the myth that Dr Richard Beehing and Ernest Marples were solely responsible for the destruction of our railway network.

A lot of lines had closed in the 1950's owing to lack of use, changing transport patterns and geological problems. The Stainmore line, a strategic route that I have a particular fasciation for, closed in 1962; a year ahead of the Beeching report.

Harold Wilson promised to reverse the rail cuts if elected in 1964. He was elected but in the event only saved one line passing through three key Labour marginals in the Welsh borders. Barbra Castle and her predecessor Thomas Fraser then went on to close even more miles of track than Richard Beeching.

The fact is that both colours of government have been spectacularly incompetent at managing our railways for the past six decades or more.
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Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

Very true, but of course Marples had a vested interest as he was director of a road building company I have a great picture in a book at home of a steam engine running a passenger train along side the being built M1...

Peter
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Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
The fact is that both colours of government have been spectacularly incompetent at managing our railways for the past six decades or more.
I think you can include the vast majority of this country's infrastructure in that statement Nigel.

Jax
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Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

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Very true, but of course Marples had a vested interest as he was director of a road building company I have a great picture in a book at home of a steam engine running a passenger train along side the being built M1...

Peter
That is very true. There is no doubt that Marples' (Chairman of Marples Ridgeway) had his nose well and truly in the trough, but his government and subsequent governments wanted to encourage car ownership to raise revenue from road and fuel taxes.

Now, having realised their collective mistakes our government is traying to tax us back onto now largely non-existent public transport.


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I think you can include the vast majority of this country's infrastructure in that statement Nigel.

Jax
I wouldn't disagree with that at all. Just look at power generation.
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Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

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Originally Posted by Rocknroll59 View Post

Tim its a bit of everything you mention...its called re-inventing the wheel...I was in discussion about that with a business friend today, most companies suffer from it as new 'young' people bring ideas to the table which only benefits them or their carers short term to climb a ladder, and creates major problems afterwards...
Peter
Ah! They need ‘carers’. That’d explain it then! (Sorry, couldn’t resist!)

So the rest of us get effectively defrauded out of wasted billions so a few people can climb a ladder. Are these people related to Tories?
Maybe leaving Uni with a degree and getting slotted into a higher grade post isn’t such a good idea after all. Get in on the lower rungs and learn the trade, gotta be cheaper and better in the long run surely.
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  #22  
Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

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I would say the south west main line (Waterloo) is heavily used. There has been talk about a diversionary route inland of Dawlish due to the continual problems with that line following storms; that could pave the way to electrification (or at least dual the line to remove the sections of single track/loops) to improve journey times.
Might that be the route that was always there until it wasn’t? Then people complain that the remaining route to the far west is closed due to weather related track conditions at Dawlish. Have we always had total idiots for politicians? Seeming that way.
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Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

Seems like they have been well and truly found out recently as well, so idiots is quite a soft word to use I feel...the downward slide has been long and complex.

'Carers' yes fingers still quicker than the brain, but know doubt that will change as the years progress
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Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

I’m kinda up for renationalising the railways (gotta be better than the money going abroad surely) but just know that if Corbyn gets his hands on the process it will be well and truly screwed up and money will flood down the drain. Do it properly, with proper auditing and proper people with the right skills in charge and it could work. Give it to a minister who’s friends with someone but doesn’t know diddly squat about anything railway related and it is doomed to failure though.
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Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
And because it is all run by 'mangers' rather than 'engineers'.
For managers, read "Accountants".

The ruin of many industries...………..They should be locked in a room with an Abacus and told to count the beans...…………..
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Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

I wrote out a wonderfully political reply...

In summary “Yes”...

I didn’t feel like another political thread!
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

I guess I turned it into that (again!) Sorry.
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  #28  
Old 29th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

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Ah! They need ‘carers’. That’d explain it then! (Sorry, couldn’t resist!)

So the rest of us get effectively defrauded out of wasted billions so a few people can climb a ladder. Are these people related to Tories?
I don't think you can narrow it down to any one political party Tim. They all have their crooks, and screwing up the railways is nothing compared to some of their exploits.

One of the other lot sent our troops into Iraq and then set himself up as Middle East Peace Envoy.


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Might that be the route that was always there until it wasn’t? Then people complain that the remaining route to the far west is closed due to weather related track conditions at Dawlish. Have we always had total idiots for politicians? Seeming that way.
I understand that Dawlish was a problem long before WWII, and even before Beeching there was no alternative route to the South West beyond Exeter St David's. There was a line along the north Devon coast until 1963 but I don't think it was ever connected to the south Devon line.

Land was purchased before WWII to build an alternative line inland of Dawlish but that was shelved owing to the war and never got off the ground again afterwards. However, following extended closure of the line owing to heavy storms a few years ago I believe there are renewed plans to build an inland line.
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  #29  
Old 30th April 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

I think the key word in all this is "infrastructure". It is not just trains, just roads, just airports, and just ports - its all of them.

I am in favour of HS2 north of Birmingham although it doesn't have to be "HS" at all, just a useable railway with plenty of (cheap) passenger and freight travel. For the southern bit I 'm not in favour of running it to central London - plenty of trains run to there already. I would bring it from Birmingham to Oxford (to link with possible routes to Cambridge and Harwich) to Heathrow to Gatwick (far too many Heathrow to Gatwick lorries/coaches on the motorway) to Ashford (International) and then onto Dover/Ramsgate.
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  #30  
Old 1st May 2019
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Re: Do we actually need HS2?

It will be a prime and easy target for terrorists.

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