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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2461  
Old 5th December 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

My wife, our adult son and I have just received a joint letter from our (Labour) MP.

It states that he intends to vote against the "deal" on 11.

He is also asking for our opinions in a survey, how did we vote in the referendum? (optional) what do we want of for the way forward following the government being defeated?

Options include a softer or harder deal. I don't know what either means, apart from some very vague idea.

All our answers can be filled in on the form supplied (one for for 3 people, Labour finger on the pulse!). We can do it online.

Harold
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  #2462  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
My wife, our adult son and I have just received a joint letter from our (Labour) MP.

It states that he intends to vote against the "deal" on 11.

He is also asking for our opinions in a survey, how did we vote in the referendum? (optional) what do we want of for the way forward following the government being defeated?

Options include a softer or harder deal. I don't know what either means, apart from some very vague idea.

All our answers can be filled in on the form supplied (one for for 3 people, Labour finger on the pulse!). We can do it online.

Harold
It's more than our miserable MP has done (Jeremy Wright, the previous occupier of Attorney General position).
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  #2463  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

"Record majority now think Brexit was the wrong decision".
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...GofK8OGYCvynYY


If you don't like The New European you can read a similar story in the Times.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...NOqk1viKMKXY9E
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  #2464  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

It looks like we are heading for a constitutional crisis that will be impossible to resolve. It's ironic that one of the principle reasons given by the Pro Brexit camp for leaving the EU was to restore the sovereignty of Parliament and now it looks possible that Parliament might impose its sovereignty (which it never really lost) to disregard the verdict of the ill-conceived referendum and take advantage of the opinion of the European Court that Article 50 can be unilaterally cancelled by the UK.

To remain in the EU under our current terms would be the sensible and pragmatic solution, but I cannot see those in favour of Brexit accepting this without a fight. This could cause a great deal of unrest and yet further uncertainty. As much as I would like the UK to remain in the EU I do wonder if it might be better to grasp the nettle of hard Brexit and suffer our destitution as punishment, to prove once and for all who was right and who was wrong.

Then, after a suitable period of remorse, we can re-apply for membership of the EU, but of course on vastly less favourable terms than we currently enjoy.
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  #2465  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
As much as I would like the UK to remain in the EU I do wonder if it might be better to grasp the nettle of hard Brexit and suffer our destitution as punishment, to prove once and for all who was right and who was wrong.

Then, after a suitable period of remorse, we can re-apply for membership of the EU, but of course on vastly less favourable terms than we currently enjoy.
Exactly what I said earlier in the thread!

The Brexit boil needs to be lanced to let all the pus out, otherwise the Brexiteers will endlessly whinge about democracy being subverted and the 'will of the people' being denied. It'll be a painful process though!

Brexit will prove to be like a child being warned not to touch something because it's hot and they will get burned. The child touches the item and then howls with pain!

Jim
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  #2466  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Civil unrest is possible either way. Cancel Brexit and approximately half the country will be extremely annoyed. Hard Brexit will be equally destructive, not only economically but at a societal level with potential unrest and protests, maybe followed by the split-up of the U.K.

What a God almighty mess.
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  #2467  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

On 9 June 2015, MPs voted by 544 to 53 in favour of the principle of holding a referendum with only the Scottish National Party opposing the Bill. The voter turnout was 72.2%.

I am in danger of agreeing with the last three posts. Yes its a mess. But - and its a very big BUT, democracy has to be accepted or we have nothing. We should just leave without an agreement Then after a reasonable period of time yes by all means have another referendum to see if we want to rejoin. No one can argue with that.

But Brexit has certainly opened pandoras box and the lid has been lost.

I am not sure the EU as we know it today will still exist in 5-10 years time given the events across Europe in the last 6 months. Populist parties are on the increase and the Elite still wont listen Sweden, Germany, Italy, France, Spain are all seeing the same problem and no one has an answer. More EU is certainly not the fix.
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  #2468  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Civil unrest is possible either way. Cancel Brexit and approximately half the country will be extremely annoyed. Hard Brexit will be equally destructive, not only economically but at a societal level with potential unrest and protests, maybe followed by the split-up of the U.K.

What a God almighty mess.
My gut feeling is that the likelihood of civil unrest will be greater if we don't leave, because the Brexiteers seem to me to be a more aggressive lot with many extreme right wingers!

Jim
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  #2469  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

I am a fan of Theresa, she has battled on against all odds, a woman of sincere duty and aplomb. BUT, I listen to her critics, at least critics of her solution, and begin to feel that there is no satisfactory solution for a "deal". So despite being a Remainer, I am thinking a clean break is the only viable solution. We can leave the Irish border to technology, and hopefully some co-operation from the EU on this matter. After all , its their border as well.

As for our constitution, our MP's have to save that, and be respectful of that.

EU does really need to modify its game, it gave nothing to Cameron in his hour of need, and seems to bully the Southern Europe countries. It needs to be modified from top to bottom. Alas I am not savvy enough to suggest what and how this can be done. But the lack of accountability is one of the Brexitiers prime reasons for leaving....

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  #2470  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
My gut feeling is that the likelihood of civil unrest will be greater if we don't leave, because the Brexiteers seem to me to be a more aggressive lot with many extreme right wingers!

Jim
It appears that UKIP has become too extreme even for Nigel Farage, now that Tommy Robinson is on board.
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  #2471  
Old 5th December 2018
Darkroom Darkroom is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
Exactly what I said earlier in the thread!
Several times in fact, albeit worded slightly differently.


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  #2472  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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It appears that UKIP has become too extreme even for Nigel Farage, now that Tommy Robinson is on board.
Farage is probably quite happy with his new vocation, advising his good friend Donald Trump on all things Brexit

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  #2473  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Darkroom View Post
Several times in fact, albeit worded slightly differently.


Darkroom
... and I see it's sinking in (except maybe not in you - except to nitpick) because I see that others are coming round to the same way of thinking!

Jim
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  #2474  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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But the lack of accountability is one of the Brexitiers prime reasons for leaving.
I understand that the way the EU works is that it's accountable to the member states through their MEPs. Barnier, Junker, Tusk etc. are servants of and accountable to the European Parliament.

Jim
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  #2475  
Old 5th December 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
It appears that UKIP has become too extreme even for Nigel Farage, now that Tommy Robinson is on board.

James O'Brien put it rather well - "Farage quitting UKIP for being too racist is like the Pope quitting the Vatican for being too Catholic".
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