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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #16  
Old 10th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

Are there any cars that are completely built in Britain any more? I thought most were assembled here from imported parts?

I changed my diesel car last year (the only diesel I've ever owned, I always said I'd never have one!) for a similar model with a petrol engine with a similar power output but which officially has lower emissions than the diesel, yet uses more fuel. I don't understand that either but anyway, my reasoning is that the greens have their sights set on banning diesel cars. The tax on my present car is 30 whereas the diesel version was 110 so the saving goes some way to offsetting the increased fuel consumption.

As for hybrids being less harmful to the environment I read somewhere recently that due to the increased weight (the batteries) they actually emit more particulate matter from their brakes than a modern diesel equivalent's exhaust! It has also been shown I think that the overall carbon footprint of a Toyota Prius (including the manufacture and disposal) is quite a bit more than an equivalent conventional car.
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Old 10th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

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Are there any cars that are completely built in Britain any more? I thought most were assembled here from imported parts?
JLR builds all of its vehicles in the UK, using British built engine blocks (formerly cast by Ford, but now home built).

Granted they use gearboxes built by XF in Germany, (ZF Friedrichshafen AG that is, not the model of car), along with various Bosch components, but it is all designed and built here in the UK.

You can even go on a tour of the Castle Bromwich factory to see them being built. (No photography allowed though.) As a point of interest, the firm's Brown's Lane factory was used to build the Spitfire aircraft; design cues from which have found their way into some recent models including the S-Type and current XJ.
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Old 10th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

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As for hybrids being less harmful to the environment I read somewhere recently that due to the increased weight (the batteries) they actually emit more particulate matter from their brakes than a modern diesel equivalent's exhaust! It has also been shown I think that the overall carbon footprint of a Toyota Prius (including the manufacture and disposal) is quite a bit more than an equivalent conventional car.
As I understand it the chemicals and chemical processes involved in the production of lithium ion batteries for electric and hybrid cars are an environmental disaster in the making.

But just like the power for electric cars the pollution is generated "somewhere else" so it doesn't matter.
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Old 10th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

Ah yes, how could I forget JLR? . I grew up almost within sight of the Land Rover test track . I was thinking more of Nissan, Honda, etc. I'm afraid my car was built in Italy; JLR products are a bit out of my price range!

Lithium-ion batteries are everywhere of course, in our phones and cameras as well as cars and aircraft. They are quite dangerous things really as owners of some Samsung phones, Sony laptops and Boeing Dreamliners will appreciate!
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Old 10th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

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I'm afraid my car was built in Italy; JLR products are a bit out of my price range!
Look again. You might be pleasantly surprised.

The way I look at it, you can buy a very nice one-year old JLR car with a few thousand miles on the clock for much the same cost as a new bog standard Eurobox. Running costs are comparable, or better.
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Old 10th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

Depends what you mean by a bog-standard Eurobox. Jaguar doesn't make a hatchback and I don't want an SUV which rules out Land Rover. And I'd always wanted an Alfa Romeo .
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

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Depends what you mean by a bog-standard Eurobox. Jaguar doesn't make a hatchback and I don't want an SUV which rules out Land Rover. And I'd always wanted an Alfa Romeo .
I like Alfa's. They are quintessentially Italian at heart, as I am, so I wouldn't lump them in the Eurobox category.

But if you take the list price of (say) a new Astra, you could buy a very nice Jag with just a few thousand miles on the clock, and probably a much better residual value in five years time.
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Old 10th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

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I'm afraid my car was built in Italy; JLR products are a bit out of my price range!
it depends on age something like 80% of the proper land rovers ever made are still on the road and available from about 1 upwards (depending on the level of rebuild needed - e.g. ebay) spares are dirt cheap compared to most other makes because of the numbers still running when old

BTW - Mine was built in Solihull and then rebuilt into an Ambulance in Cambridge
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  #24  
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

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it depends on age something like 80% of the proper land rovers ever made are still on the road and available from about 1 upwards (depending on the level of rebuild needed - e.g. ebay)
I see the seller "Will post to United Kingdom."

I wonder how much that would cost so send by RM Special Delivery, before 9.00 am?
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  #25  
Old 10th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I see the seller "Will post to United Kingdom."

I wonder how much that would cost so send by RM Special Delivery, before 9.00 am?
Have it sent by Yodel and pretend to be out. Just watch them try to chuck that over a fence!

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  #26  
Old 10th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

I note that this discussion has yet to get to LIGHT BULBS - The new may burn less electricity but are more greedy to produce and a disaster to dispose of.
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

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I note that this discussion has yet to get to LIGHT BULBS - The new may burn less electricity but are more greedy to produce and a disaster to dispose of.
Light bulbs?
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Old 11th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

In 2015 I drove my Golf GTi to Pamplona and back where VW make Polos. That holiday was 3 weeks and around 3000 miles but wasn't even 1/3rd of my annual mileage.
I'm sure that the journey used a lot more fuel than sticking a Polo on train/transporter and delivering it to East Anglia.
The environmental impact of transporting a car from where it is built is trivial in comparison to it's lifetime emissions.

Britain is manufacturing more cars per year than ever before, over 1.6million in the 1st 11 months of 2016, exporting 57% of them to the EU. Not every single component is manufactured in Britain, but then every complex mechanical device is assembled from parts manufactured all over the world.
https://www.smmt.co.uk/2016/12/1-6-m...ches-new-high/


The hybrids are worse for the environment "argument" is based on a widely disputed study by CNW and a Daily Mail article.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips...oding-the-myth

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One of the most misleading ones, which has been spread by countless blogs over the past several weeks, and cited without verification by several sources that appear reputable, looks to have originated in a story last November in England’s Daily Mail, a right-leaning, British tabloid paper, which bore the gleefully spiteful title ‘Toyota factory turns landscape to arid wilderness.’
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David Friedman, research director of the Clean Vehicles Program at the Union of Concerned Scientists, thinks that CNW’s results and apparent methodology bring red flags. “This study has been completely contradicted by studies from MIT, Argonne National Labs and Carnegie Mellon’s Lifecycle Assessment Group. The reality is hybrids can significantly cut global warming pollution, reduce energy use, and save drivers thousands at the pump,”
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Toyota also says that the study uses an unrealistically low estimated lifetime for hybrids, and that there's no data to support its assumptions in this. For instance, according to the study the average Prius is expected to go 109,000 miles over its lifetime, while a Hummer H1 would go 379,000 miles. CNW says about hybrids: “…these are generally secondary vehicles in a household OR they are driven in restricted or short range environments such as college campuses or retirement neighborhoods.”
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Old 11th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

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Originally Posted by AMc View Post
In 2015 I drove my Golf GTi to Pamplona and back where VW make Polos. That holiday was 3 weeks and around 3000 miles but wasn't even 1/3rd of my annual mileage.
I'm sure that the journey used a lot more fuel than sticking a Polo on train/transporter and delivering it to East Anglia.
The environmental impact of transporting a car from where it is built is trivial in comparison to it's lifetime emissions.

Britain is manufacturing more cars per year than ever before, over 1.6million in the 1st 11 months of 2016, exporting 57% of them to the EU. Not every single component is manufactured in Britain, but then every complex mechanical device is assembled from parts manufactured all over the world.
https://www.smmt.co.uk/2016/12/1-6-m...ches-new-high/


The hybrids are worse for the environment "argument" is based on a widely disputed study by CNW and a Daily Mail article.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/tips...oding-the-myth

TLDR
Hmmm. Daily Mail, right leaning? Slight understatement there.

But none of this alters the fact that charging an electric car using fossil fuels creates twice the quantity of CO2 per mile than a modern diesel or petrol engine. It is just that the electricity is generated 'somewhere else', so the pollution is unseen, and doesn't matter.

Hybrids provide some benefits if driven in mixed town and country conditions, where their batteries can be fully charged, but their fuel consumption (and CO2 emissions) are poorer on long motorway journeys than conventional drivetrains, whilst they provide no benefit at all if only driven in congested city centres.

The steam age, coal burning and the early days of internal combustion engines created huge pollution problems in cities which killed millions of people, including my own grandfather. But this pollution was self limiting as people simply couldn't live in it, so alternative ways had to be found.

Mankind has tackled these problems by creating cleaner pollution instead of preventing it. Unfortunately the pollution we make now is so clean we don't know we are creating it, but it is actually causing more harm to the wider world than the smogs seen in our cities in the first part of the 20th century.

I do not accept that polluting the countryside is the answer to inner city pollution problems, which is effectively what hybrid and electric cars do.
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Old 11th January 2017
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Re: Can We Sue Volkswagen Owners for Polluting Our Air?

The non-plugin hybrid generates it's power in the same way as a conventional petrol car.
The Prius delivers a perfectly acceptable mpg on the motorway for a 1.8l petrol car. It may be heavier due to the battery pack but the engine is tuned for efficiency with the electric motors providing additional power on demand so it doesn't need to be as thirsty as a similar sized 1.8l car to provide reasonable levels of acceleration and torque.
When driving a hybrid in town recovering the energy from braking makes a significant saving as does stop/starting the engine to replenish the battery and using the motor for low speed driving rather than stop/starting a petrol engine to provide instant power for low speed driving. This is where hybrids are at their most efficient so the provide significant benefits in congested cities which is why they are treated preferentially for the congestion charge in London and are popular with minicab drivers elsewhere.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus...=&submodel_id=

You have to run a petrol car on fossil fuels.
You can run a diesels on a variety fuels but none without a significant impact somewhere down the line.

You can power an all electric vehicle using renewable energy or conventional electricity.
In 2015-16 41.1% of the UK fuel mix is delivered from non CO2 sources (28.3% renewable and 12.9% nuclear) so even if the owner isn't using a 100% renewable tariff their vehicle is compensating for the inefficiencies in the supply chain for that power by the means of production.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ge2016__3_.pdf
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