Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Motion pictures - video and animation > Movie mode - technical discussions

Movie mode - technical discussions Still imaging is complicated enough but for most of us video and movie making is a whole new world to get to grips with - here is the place to request help and advice and to post it too.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15th April 2016
DavidJ1609's Avatar
DavidJ1609 DavidJ1609 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: China for now...
Posts: 544
Thanks: 20
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Likes: 49
Liked 17 Times in 11 Posts
Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

Hi,

I've got a new RODE VideoMicro microphone, a lapel mic, and, of course, the in-built mic.

In a quiet room, with no ambient noise, all combinations of microphones and levels result in a very audible hissing sound that is very off-putting. I doubt it's the microphones, as they are all different.

"Gain" would appear to be an issue, but how to set this on the E-M5 MK2?

It appears impossible to turn off the internal camera Mic without also turning off the external mic.

Disclosure: No time yet to do real world test. I spent a few hours today checking the range and sound field of the Rode, but all recordings have hissing.

In fairness, although less so, the Rode and Lapel mike have some noise in the iPhone recording app.

Am I worrying too much? It's just that there's a 7-day return on the Rode for a refund.

Any pointers to, specifically, the Olympus E-M5 MK2 would be appreciated.

David.
__________________
_____________________________________________
EM-5+MK 1 & 2; M.Zuiko 45mm f1.8; M.Zuiko 75-300mm; M.Zuiko, 9-18mm, HLD-6M; M.Zuiko, 12-40mm pro; M.Zuiko, 40-150mm pro; FL-600.
_________________________________________
If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.
_________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15th April 2016
Wee man's Avatar
Wee man Wee man is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Newcastle Co. Down N. Ireland
Posts: 7,382
Thanks: 2,273
Thanked 1,062 Times in 947 Posts
Likes: 274
Liked 965 Times in 638 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

Have you checked you are not picking up mains hum which at times manifests itself as a hiss?

Wee Man
__________________
Ed

If you give up smoking,drinking and sex, you don't live longer, it just feels like it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Wee man For This Useful Post:
DavidJ1609 (16th April 2016)
  #3  
Old 15th April 2016
Gwyver's Avatar
Gwyver Gwyver is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: nr Stockport
Posts: 981
Thanks: 65
Thanked 250 Times in 159 Posts
Likes: 156
Liked 239 Times in 117 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidJ1609 View Post
Hi,

Any pointers to, specifically, the Olympus E-M5 MK2 would be appreciated.

David.
Try repeating your test with Image Stabilizer = Off.
It is possible that your mikes are picking up the "fizzing" noise which can be heard when the IS is working.
__________________
Chris
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gwyver For This Useful Post:
DavidJ1609 (16th April 2016)
  #4  
Old 15th April 2016
PeterBirder's Avatar
PeterBirder PeterBirder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: BRAINTREE ESSEX
Posts: 5,165
Thanks: 1,661
Thanked 916 Times in 772 Posts
Likes: 1,526
Liked 613 Times in 363 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidJ1609 View Post
Hi,

I've got a new RODE VideoMicro microphone, a lapel mic, and, of course, the in-built mic.

In a quiet room, with no ambient noise, all combinations of microphones and levels result in a very audible hissing sound that is very off-putting. I doubt it's the microphones, as they are all different.

"Gain" would appear to be an issue, but how to set this on the E-M5 MK2?

It appears impossible to turn off the internal camera Mic without also turning off the external mic.

Disclosure: No time yet to do real world test. I spent a few hours today checking the range and sound field of the Rode, but all recordings have hissing.

In fairness, although less so, the Rode and Lapel mike have some noise in the iPhone recording app.

Am I worrying too much? It's just that there's a 7-day return on the Rode for a refund.

Any pointers to, specifically, the Olympus E-M5 MK2 would be appreciated.

David.
Hi David.
I have the E-M10 MKII which came out after the E-M5 MKII and has the same features and I think I found the answer to your problem.

In true Olympus fashion there is a gain control but it is called "Silent Shooting" and is only accessible using the touch screen on the monitor.
For the E-M5 MKII the details are on pages 20 and 41 of the manual.

I tried the "silent room" test on my E-M10 MKII and at the default setting it does indeed produce hissing but by turning down the gain this removes the hissing whilst any wanted sound is still recorded. I presume there is actually an AVC (Automatic Volume Control) system which "normalises" the recorded audio and avoids clipping etc.

Regards.
__________________
Peter

she looked at me and said "It's official. I hate your camera. It's just so amazing and perfect I want one!"

E-M10 MK II, E-M5, E-PL1, E-PM2, mZ 12-50, mZ 14-42mm EZ, mZ 17mm f 1.8, mZ 25mm f1.8, mZ 45mm f1.8, mZ 75-300mm II.
OM1n, OM 50mm f1.8.
Oly Viewer3, Dxo Pro 11. FastStone.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PeterBirder For This Useful Post:
DavidJ1609 (16th April 2016)
  #5  
Old 16th April 2016
DavidJ1609's Avatar
DavidJ1609 DavidJ1609 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: China for now...
Posts: 544
Thanks: 20
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Likes: 49
Liked 17 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee man View Post
Have you checked you are not picking up mains hum which at times manifests itself as a hiss?

Wee Man
Thanks. I do have mains hum on my Hi-Fi, which drives me nuts and I don;t know what I need to filter it for watching movies or listening to music.

As for the camera - it's nit plugged in, and I don't think it is, but I'll do an indoor and outdoor test to see if the mains is interfering.

Cheers.
__________________
_____________________________________________
EM-5+MK 1 & 2; M.Zuiko 45mm f1.8; M.Zuiko 75-300mm; M.Zuiko, 9-18mm, HLD-6M; M.Zuiko, 12-40mm pro; M.Zuiko, 40-150mm pro; FL-600.
_________________________________________
If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.
_________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16th April 2016
DavidJ1609's Avatar
DavidJ1609 DavidJ1609 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: China for now...
Posts: 544
Thanks: 20
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Likes: 49
Liked 17 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyver View Post
Try repeating your test with Image Stabilizer = Off.
It is possible that your mikes are picking up the "fizzing" noise which can be heard when the IS is working.
Yes. Already checked. Thanks for the info.

David.
__________________
_____________________________________________
EM-5+MK 1 & 2; M.Zuiko 45mm f1.8; M.Zuiko 75-300mm; M.Zuiko, 9-18mm, HLD-6M; M.Zuiko, 12-40mm pro; M.Zuiko, 40-150mm pro; FL-600.
_________________________________________
If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.
_________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16th April 2016
DavidJ1609's Avatar
DavidJ1609 DavidJ1609 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: China for now...
Posts: 544
Thanks: 20
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Likes: 49
Liked 17 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterBirder View Post
Hi David.
In true Olympus fashion there is a gain control but it is called "Silent Shooting" and is only accessible using the touch screen on the monitor.
For the E-M5 MKII the details are on pages 20 and 41 of the manual.
Regards.
Ah! I wondered what this was - I thought it was simply volume control and ignored it.

I'll check tonight and report back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterBirder View Post
In true Olympus fashion
Indeed!

David.
__________________
_____________________________________________
EM-5+MK 1 & 2; M.Zuiko 45mm f1.8; M.Zuiko 75-300mm; M.Zuiko, 9-18mm, HLD-6M; M.Zuiko, 12-40mm pro; M.Zuiko, 40-150mm pro; FL-600.
_________________________________________
If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.
_________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 16th April 2016
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 10,012
Thanks: 1,639
Thanked 995 Times in 782 Posts
Likes: 3,235
Liked 1,025 Times in 641 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

On looking at my E-M1 Menu (with FW 4.1) I notice the E-M Mk II is similar & so I am looking at the E-M5 Mk II manual (Version II) Menu on page 157 & it refers to page 107. I would think it would be a good idea to try turning off Volume Limiter in Menu *I & then adjust the Mic (internal or external, whichever you're using) to the desired level using the L&R metering for a sample of what you would be recording at the bottom of the volume adjustment scale (on the camera). It might be wise to then turn the Volume Limiter back on once that level has been established perhaps. I don't know if that would help as I rarely do any video with my camera.

I don't have the Silent mode function on the E-M1 though.

__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Cameras: OM-D E-M1/HLD-7, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5/HLD-6.
Lenses: M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, ZD12-60 SWD, ZD50-200 SWD, EC14, EC20, EX25, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 9 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ross the fiddler For This Useful Post:
DavidJ1609 (16th April 2016)
  #9  
Old 16th April 2016
DavidJ1609's Avatar
DavidJ1609 DavidJ1609 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: China for now...
Posts: 544
Thanks: 20
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Likes: 49
Liked 17 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

Hi again,

The touch-screen controls on thereat during recording set the external microphone volume/gain. The setting changes the volume in the normal "Movie menu" set. When I change the touch screen"Silent shooting" referred to by Peter, it is the same as going into the menus and changing it. e.g. I set the main menu to +3, start shooting, change the touch screen "Silent shooting" to +6, and after recording the main menu volume is +6.

I'm new to audio terminology, but I assume to increase the "volume" on the mic is actually increasing "gain".

Regrettably, both IS and the touch screen leave audible noise on the recording. IS when I touch the camera, and a digital pulse-click as I adjust the touch-screen volume; which is annoying.

For the moment, iMovie removes the hiss, although it's method means when I speak, the voice 'fades up' with the hiss audible.

Monday will be a real-world test of the microphone, both outside in the wild, and in an office. I'll report back here.

It seems on-camera is a no-no, and an external digital recorder is the way to go if I want clean audio - a complaint from many DSLR cameras. To be fair, professionals would never use on-camera mics, and software filtering and quality overall is more than sufficient for most casual users, I would guess.

If I want quiet audio, it seems I'd have to venture into a whole new hardware territory.

Regards,

David.
__________________
_____________________________________________
EM-5+MK 1 & 2; M.Zuiko 45mm f1.8; M.Zuiko 75-300mm; M.Zuiko, 9-18mm, HLD-6M; M.Zuiko, 12-40mm pro; M.Zuiko, 40-150mm pro; FL-600.
_________________________________________
If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.
_________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21st April 2016
DavidJ1609's Avatar
DavidJ1609 DavidJ1609 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: China for now...
Posts: 544
Thanks: 20
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Likes: 49
Liked 17 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

Hi,

If I use the touchscreen volume adjuster, the gain really does work from to quiet to too loud. However, the hiss is always there.

I removed noise in Audacity and iMovie, and the results were better, but....

1) If I used a little reduction, the hiss was audible every time someone spoke - so only reduced in the quiet sections between speaking.

2) If I used a lot of reduction, the voices sounded like they were in an aquarium with very unnatural fade in an out.

The above refers to a hard-walled classroom or my own apartment. Outside, the hissing was indistinguishable from wind hiss/noise as it was a windy day. The Rode was far, far better then in-camera in this situation.

It looks like I need an external and separate source to get clean audio inside. If I like the idea of video, I'll look into a Zoom or similar.

I've just reconnected with a local film maker who uses DSLR and has a sound guy - I'll tap them for advice.

Cheers,

David.
__________________
_____________________________________________
EM-5+MK 1 & 2; M.Zuiko 45mm f1.8; M.Zuiko 75-300mm; M.Zuiko, 9-18mm, HLD-6M; M.Zuiko, 12-40mm pro; M.Zuiko, 40-150mm pro; FL-600.
_________________________________________
If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.
_________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 31st July 2016
DavidJ1609's Avatar
DavidJ1609 DavidJ1609 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: China for now...
Posts: 544
Thanks: 20
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Likes: 49
Liked 17 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Audio Hiss EM-5 MK2 - Gain control?

I'm sorry I forgot to update this. I've been so busy leaving full time work to go freelance.

The in-camera hiss is all about the microphone to subject distance. The further away the subject, the more "gain" any mic needs to record a decent volume.

In-camera and camera-mounted microphones will be too far from the source, and so you'll always get "gain" noise unless you are recording relatively 'full' ambient noise. This is why all professional recording people use microphones close to the source - as close to the mouth as possible; using either boom or lapel mics.

A quick look on the internet will give you the different types of microphone and what they are good at.

For my part, cheap lapel mics from China were good enough - I plugged them into mobile phones and "clapped" for a sound mark to sync later. I also put the Rode mic on a boom, and the problem went away. Any gaps in speaking and the resultant minor gain hiss, with the cheap lapel mics, were removed by the software with ease.

I've only played around to get it right, and not produced a video yet, but the problem is down to quality/position of the mic, and unless you are a professional, "quality" is subjective. I wouldn't buy high-end gear unless I needed broadcast quality.

David.
__________________
_____________________________________________
EM-5+MK 1 & 2; M.Zuiko 45mm f1.8; M.Zuiko 75-300mm; M.Zuiko, 9-18mm, HLD-6M; M.Zuiko, 12-40mm pro; M.Zuiko, 40-150mm pro; FL-600.
_________________________________________
If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.
_________________________________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
em5 mk2, recording, rode video micro, video

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
After the pain, the gain brian1208 Foto Fair 8 16th April 2015 09:16 PM
PC control of EM-1 raichea Olympus OM-D E-M1 8 15th September 2014 03:26 PM
How to copy an audio cd with OS X Mountain Lion Olybirder The lounge 7 20th July 2013 10:06 PM
Audio server Wreckdiver The lounge 2 19th June 2011 03:51 PM
HELP! Remote Control malcapone Olympus E-620/600 10 6th June 2010 09:42 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:09 AM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2015, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger