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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #16  
Old 4th July 2015
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: Freedom of Panorama Petition

We visit private gardens, open to the public to raise funds for charity, on summer weekends. Each has a poster, provided by the charity, which has a condition that no photos may be taken for commercial purposes without the permission of the owner. Nobody bothers me as I photograph flowers, I would challenge them to show that my image was from their plant (as it was weeks, months or years prior to their complaint.

In English law, to share information, and image, etc. with a third party is to publish.

"Publish" rhymes with "bullish". Almost an apt match, to a tee!

In the meantime, no pictures of the Tower of London without permission from William the Conqueror.

Harold
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Old 4th July 2015
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Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
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Re: Freedom of Panorama Petition

I have said in many places; Google's lawyers will have something to say about the effect it will have on street view, etc...

Getty Images will likely take a "position" on this as well.

To say nothing of the Bus Tours full of Japanese tourists.
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Old 5th July 2015
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Re: Freedom of Panorama Petition

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Originally Posted by yorky View Post
Maybe we should leave the common market before it eats away all our rights?
No, let's just do as the French do - observe the laws that suit us and disregard those that don't. We really need to learn how to play the EU game!
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  #19  
Old 5th July 2015
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Re: Freedom of Panorama Petition

I believe the issue is only related to commercial use, and it's not the photographer's commercial use that is the crux but rather FB/Google's practice of effectively making themselves money by running targeted ads next to the images.

So my first point is that all the outrage being whipped up in well meaning amateur photographers like us is actually to FB/Google's commercial benefit rather than necessarily our own, and we should think a bit about that.

Secondly, I have not yet seen it pointed out that we in the UK already have this very same problem with commercial use of identifiable images of people. The prevailing wisdom is that model releases are not required if the images are not used by the photographer for commercial purposes. Well, what if they're published on FB/Google and they are the ones profiting?

I'm glad to see that the laws of inadequate thought and unintended consequences are still alive and kicking in the jolly old EU
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  #20  
Old 6th July 2015
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Re: Freedom of Panorama Petition

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
No, let's just do as the French do - observe the laws that suit us and disregard those that don't. We really need to learn how to play the EU game!
Well said john!

However, when mentioning the French you forgot to add 'creating laws only to be upheld by other EU members'.
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Old 6th July 2015
KeithL KeithL is offline
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Re: Freedom of Panorama Petition

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Originally Posted by drmarkf View Post
I believe the issue is only related to commercial use, and it's not the photographer's commercial use that is the crux but rather FB/Google's practice of effectively making themselves money by running targeted ads next to the images.

So my first point is that all the outrage being whipped up in well meaning amateur photographers like us is actually to FB/Google's commercial benefit rather than necessarily our own, and we should think a bit about that.

Secondly, I have not yet seen it pointed out that we in the UK already have this very same problem with commercial use of identifiable images of people. The prevailing wisdom is that model releases are not required if the images are not used by the photographer for commercial purposes. Well, what if they're published on FB/Google and they are the ones profiting?

I'm glad to see that the laws of inadequate thought and unintended consequences are still alive and kicking in the jolly old EU
I can only add that we in England have been very good at that over the centuries, and it only ever gets worse! We taught the others how to do it, didn't we?

The problem with all this is that the law may actually be targeting the wrong people. I'm all for jumping up and down on the likes of Facebook; but one organisation that is deeply concerned is Wikimedia. It's product, Wikipedia, benefits us all; and though it carries some advertising, it does have to fund its very existence. Unlike FB and Google, who are out to make a profit. I think FB and its ilk is a rather 'underhand' way of turning a mass movement based around "fun" into a hugely profitable business, and in the process, as I understand it, also undermining e.g. copyright and legitimate professional photographers. I don't know what the solution is; but I am rather concerned to see such a law as this being proposed.
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