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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #46  
Old 24th April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Elon Musk and Tesla seem to be the new Apple.
At least Apple products work. (well most of the time )
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  #47  
Old 24th April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Also electric cars are inherently more efficient than conventional cars (40% or thereabouts).

Also it's a German report and the Germans have a vested interest in diesel

Ian
An electric kettle is almost 100% efficient at the point of use because KW/Hr in = heat out. The newer low power kettles mandated by the EU are actually less efficient than the old 3 KW kettles because there is greater heat loss whilst they are warming up, unless you buy an expensive double walled kettle.

Likewise an electric shower is close to 100% efficient for the same reasons. However, it is also the most expensive way to shower because of the inefficiencies of the electricity supply system. If fact, it costs around four times as much to buy one KW/Hr of electricity compared with the same heat value of natural gas.

Storage batteries are also a long way short of being 100% efficient in terms of power in Vs power out, so whilst the electric motor bit is very efficient the total supply chain efficiency is probably no better than an efficient ICE vehicle.

Given the transient loads on the electricity grid and the remote locations of some motorway service stations it is likely that diesel generators will still be needed to meet demand at peak times. Indeed, I note that one such generator has been installed recently at Killington Lake services to allow electric car charging.

Point taken about the Germans though.
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  #48  
Old 24th April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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At least Apple products work. (well most of the time )
Well you really wouldn't want an Apple software update on your four year old Tesla car. Maximum speed would be limited to 40 MPH "to protect the battery" (and no doubt to force you to buy a new one).
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Well you really wouldn't want an Apple software update on your four year old Tesla car. Maximum speed would be limited to 40 MPH "to protect the battery" (and no doubt to force you to buy a new one).
Absolutely true. We can't have people using 4-year-old technology got to have the latest version.
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Old 24th April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Given the transient loads on the electricity grid and the remote locations of some motorway service stations it is likely that diesel generators will still be needed to meet demand at peak times. Indeed, I note that one such generator has been installed recently at Killington Lake services to allow electric car charging.
I understand now.

We get rid of all the diesel cars in favour of the less polluting electric cars, but then need diesel generators to enable us to charge them.

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  #51  
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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I understand now.

We get rid of all the diesel cars in favour of the less polluting electric cars, but then need diesel generators to enable us to charge them.

Jax
Yes, that's the idea. You also have to wait for at least an hour while you recharge your car. So you can spend more money in the Motorway Services playing on the video games.
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  #52  
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Yes, that's the idea. You also have to wait for at least an hour while you recharge your car. So you can spend more money in the Motorway Services playing on the video games.

Looks like the only answer to a true non polluting vehicle is a cycle rickshaw but that would involve purchasing protein additives and steroids for SWMBO.

Maybe not such a good idea after all

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  #53  
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

Trust is a very important fact of life. But even more important is knowledge and how that knowledge is used.

Here is a fact about owning a Tesla; owners are not expected or encouraged to use the free Superchargers as their main energy source. They are provided to enable worry-free long-distance journeys. So Superchargers are strategically located to provide top-ups.

With the right electricity deal, overnight charging at home can be as low as around 5p per KWH. On a Tesla Model S 85D, which is a large car, that computes to a realistic 2 pence per mile - even less if you drive economically. A 50MPG diesel costs around 11 pence per mile in fuel.

That said, you don't buy a Tesla to save money on fuel! But it helps.

Elon Musk is a rather strange man but he has definitely delivered a great deal of his promises. I have never bought into the idea of hero worship with the likes of Musk, Jobs, Zuckerberg, etc. I dislike Apple's closed in attitude towards their products but I don't think you can apply that to cars.

I can still charge a Tesla with pretty much any public charging facility, buy tyres and other consumables from 3rd parties, etc. I even don't much like the new Tesla Model 3 with its minimalist dashboard and lack of a hatchback.

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Sorry, but I would not trust Elon Musk to deliver anything he promises. Every time his critics start asking difficult questions he announces some new future planned vehicle and the press just believe him. As for being green, if you don't live within 10 miles of a city do you get a free diesel generator with every Tesla?
He is one of the worlds biggest con men IMHO and seems to get away with it.

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  #54  
Old 24th April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post

Somebody recently said that the private motor car is a failed 20th century experiment which should be scrapped. I tend to agree. Rather than making pollution cleaner we really need to find ways of polluting less.
This really is part of the answer. Less cars on the roads can only be a benefit.

But of course our political masters don't look long term, just long enough to get in next time.
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  #55  
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Installing a 3-phase supply could be very costly. Have a look here.
We live in a typical suburban road with 1930s three bed semis and my neighbour across the road did have a three-phase supply installed as he had some metal working gear in his workshop. That was probably 15-20 years ago.

No idea how much that cost him though. He's not around anymore, sadly - lovely guy.

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  #56  
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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I am reminded of the anecdotal frog in a pot (or something similar) on a stove - the temperature slowly rises and the frog isn't alarmed until it's too late.

Very often, skepticism is useful. However, when we are looking at the long term health of our planet and, therefore, the future well-being of our children and grandchildren, surely we should take warnings about climate change and other types of environmental pollution seriously?

My personal opinion is that analysts can play with the data all they like, but it's plain to me that our winters are more mild, Spring happens several weeks earlier than it used to, sea levels have noticeably risen in low-lying areas, glaciers have retreated significantly, all kinds of pollution are evidently affecting us a lot more and so on.

We can't go on like this.

Ian
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  #57  
Old 24th April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Sorry, but I would not trust Elon Musk to deliver anything he promises. Every time his critics start asking difficult questions he announces some new future planned vehicle and the press just believe him. As for being green, if you don't live within 10 miles of a city do you get a free diesel generator with every Tesla?
He is one of the worlds biggest con men IMHO and seems to get away with it.

Another thing, while Superchargers are exclusive to Tesla owners (and owners of newer Teslas have to pay to use them), Tesla also produces public charging points that most EVs can charge from.

Ian
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Even amongst practicing Roman Catholics I don't think papal teachings on birth control are followed in the way they once were; certainly not in Europe, so I don't think that is a major issue any more; although Islam seems to encourage large families.

On the flip side, perhaps if people listened to the church's teachings about marriage, fidelity and so forth we wouldn't need to pay feckless girls to have babies they so obviously canít afford (or raise).
My mother's family are Filipino Catholics and big families are still encouraged there.

I'm not religious but I'm not anti-religion, in general. Sadly, religion is the main source of human conflict.

Ian
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  #59  
Old 24th April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

Purely as a point of interest from someone who has never considered purchasing an electric car :

With a conventionally fueled car, if, for whatever reason you run out of fuel, a friendly RAC or AA man or even a hitch to the nearest filling station with a can usually solves the problem. What happens with an electric vehicle in similar circumstances ?

Jax
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
An electric kettle is almost 100% efficient at the point of use because KW/Hr in = heat out. The newer low power kettles mandated by the EU are actually less efficient than the old 3 KW kettles because there is greater heat loss whilst they are warming up, unless you buy an expensive double walled kettle.

Likewise an electric shower is close to 100% efficient for the same reasons. However, it is also the most expensive way to shower because of the inefficiencies of the electricity supply system. If fact, it costs around four times as much to buy one KW/Hr of electricity compared with the same heat value of natural gas.

Storage batteries are also a long way short of being 100% efficient in terms of power in Vs power out, so whilst the electric motor bit is very efficient the total supply chain efficiency is probably no better than an efficient ICE vehicle.

Given the transient loads on the electricity grid and the remote locations of some motorway service stations it is likely that diesel generators will still be needed to meet demand at peak times. Indeed, I note that one such generator has been installed recently at Killington Lake services to allow electric car charging.

Point taken about the Germans though.
One conclusion I have come to in reading your post is that we should not skimp on the cost of a new kettle and so I would definitely buy one that was higher in its efficiency rating. We are probably all guilty of sometimes over-filling kettles, too.

The issue of supply for the unfolding EV generation is a serious challenge. Diesel generators at service stations for this purpose is clearly unacceptable. I would hope this would be simply a temporary measure at that location because a technical fault there.

However, as I pointed out in a separate post, most EVs will be charged at home. Owners living in flats and other dwellings with no possibility of hooking up from the household will have their own challenges of course.

My rough estimate is that our domestic electricity consumption will probably double once we get our EV, though the bulk of that will be overnight.

Ian
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