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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1306  
Old 21st September 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
I went to Moorfields eye hospital in London today for my monthly eye injection for age related wet macular degeneration. I was seen by five nurses, an optometrist and a doctor - a mixture of nationalities, none of them from the U.K.. Both the receptionists were not from the U.K. either. Without immigrants Moorefields would be turned over as a hostel for the homeless!

Jim
Why does every comment you make assume that the plan is to bring immigration down to zero?

Harold
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  #1307  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Immigrant quotas, source copied and pasted from the Guardian Feb 2018:

Britain has hit its cap on visas for skilled non-European workers for an unprecedented third month in a row, deepening the staffing crisis facing the NHS and other key employers.

When the monthly quota was reached in December and January for the first time in seven years immigration lawyers had expected it would prove to be a blip, but they now fear it is turning into a long-term problem.

More than a third of the tier-2 work visas issued by the Home Office go to medical and other staff recruited to work in the NHS. Migration experts expect that among the first group to be turned away will be doctors and other healthcare staff, software developers and scientists.

The next set of quarterly immigration figures will be published on Thursday. They are expected to show increasing evidence of a ďBrexodusĒ over the past year, with an accelerating decline in the numbers of EU nationals coming to work in Britain while increasing numbers return home.


The Home Office sent out hundreds of emails to UK employers and businesses last week telling them that their applications for the certificates of sponsorship required to recruit mostly highly skilled workers from outside the EU had been refused because they did not meet the minimum points score set for the February quota.

Skilled migrants protest against UK visa policies

The cap on skilled worker numbers operates on an annual quota of 20,700 with a fixed number of spaces available each month. Until last December the monthly quota had only been exceeded in one month since the cap was introduced by Theresa May as home secretary in 2011.

The Home Office confirmed that the minimum salary for a job to qualify for a skilled work visa was normally £30,000, or £20,800 for a graduate recruit. However, in December it was set at £55,000 and in January tier-2 visa applications for jobs paying less than £46,000 a year were refused unless they were PhD-level roles or were for jobs on the official shortage occupation lists.

The points-based immigration system prioritises applicants according to their advertised salary, with the minimum annual pay changing according to the number of applicants above the quota and their points rating. This hits the NHS particularly hard
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  #1308  
Old 21st September 2018
TimP TimP is online now
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Hospitals still actively recruit nurses and HCAs from abroad, sending people to various countries including places like the Philippines. None of those will be earning anything close to those sums, not even a senior nurse specialist. Hospitals are kept running by foreign nurses although no one seems to take into account the effect it has on elderly patients who struggle to understand and be understood by the nurses, most of whom do a far better job than some of the surly local staff.
Early morning rant over.
  #1309  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Hospitals still actively recruit nurses and HCAs from abroad, sending people to various countries including places like the Philippines. None of those will be earning anything close to those sums, not even a senior nurse specialist. Hospitals are kept running by foreign nurses although no one seems to take into account the effect it has on elderly patients who struggle to understand and be understood by the nurses, most of whom do a far better job than some of the surly local staff.
Early morning rant over.
Great stuff, but itís not enough. There are approximately 33000 UK nurse vacancies waiting to be filled. Nurse numbers have fallen and senior NHS manager positions being filled have risen. I can get the exact figures if you like. Whatís the government doing about it? Recruiting from foreign countries such as from within the EU - Ireland, Poland blah blah, is not working with the prospect of Brexit and the Philippines donít have the numbers needed. Foreign recruitment is nothing new as its gone on for many years. Itís desperate, the staffing levels in the NHS.

What is the answer?

Hope your feeling chilled
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  #1310  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
Itís desperate, the staffing levels in the NHS.

What is the answer?

Hope your feeling chilled
It must be desperate. Almost every time I visit a hospital I see large groups of people, mainly nurses, standing around putting the world to rights; probably complaining about the government, having too much to do or not being paid enough.

Personally I have no complaints at all about the service I have received from the NHS, but my observations are that the NHS could do a lot more with the staff that is has if only they were properly organised and motivated. I have not seen similar timewasting in other industries since the end of nationalisation.

On a similar subject, my niece went to university and trained as a nurse on an NHS sponsorship. She chose to specialise in elderly and dementia care, which she enjoys. However, she complains that because of her speciality she was never trained to take bloods or administer injections, and so despite being a SRN is not able to undertake these tasks. She therefore has to request a nurse or doctor from another department to do the job which not only wastes time and resources but also causes dementia patients considerable distress. She has requested the necessary training, which I understand would only take a few days, but these requests have been declined.
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  #1311  
Old 21st September 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
It must be desperate. Almost every time I visit a hospital I see large groups of people, mainly nurses, standing around putting the world to rights; probably complaining about the government, having too much to do or not being paid enough.
A million miles from my personal experience and that of my partner. I wouldn't want my 2 daughters to have to work as hard as the nurses I've observed!

Jim
  #1312  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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A million miles from my personal experience and that of my partner. I wouldn't want my 2 daughters to have to work as hard as the nurses I've observed!

Jim
Well that's the thing. Large groups of staff are seemingly standing around holding union meetings whilst others are running around like blue arsed flies. It makes no sense.
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  #1313  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Well that's the thing. Large groups of staff are seemingly standing around holding union meetings whilst others are running around like blue arsed flies. It makes no sense.
I would like to see your evidence. Photograph and transcript please. If you canít? why make such provocative trolling statements? My local hospital in London is the Royal Free Hospital, where you wonít see any nurses standing around outside holding a union meeting.
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  #1314  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
I would like to see your evidence. Photograph and transcript please. If you canít? why make such provocative trolling statements? My local hospital in London is the Royal Free Hospital, where you wonít see any nurses standing around outside holding a union meeting.
Phil, I think even you would have to agree that taking photographs of NHS staff holding unofficial meetings in public areas of hospital buildings would be deeply unpopular, and may well be illegal.

There is massive waste and inefficiency in the NHS; a fact which is privately acknowledged by many staff members, but these matters will never, ever be addressed while people such as yourself remain in total denial.

You yourself have made many sweeping statements about the negative effects of Brexit which hasn't even happened yet. Do you have photographic evidence to support your claims? If not, why make such provocative trolling statements?
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  #1315  
Old 21st September 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Well that's the thing. Large groups of staff are seemingly standing around holding union meetings
Is it possible that they were discussing patients' (your) requirements?

Jim
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  #1316  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Is it possible that they were discussing patients' (your) requirements?

Jim
What; six or eight NHS staff members holding a meeting in a public waiting area to discuss patients' treatments? I would sincerely hope not! This isn't BBC Casualty we are talking about.

Whatever happened to patient confidentiality?

Surely if these were official meetings they would be held in private offices or meeting rooms?
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  #1317  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Phil, I think even you would have to agree that taking photographs of NHS staff holding unofficial meetings in public areas of hospital buildings would be deeply unpopular, and may well be illegal.

There is massive waste and inefficiency in the NHS; a fact which is privately acknowledged by many staff members, but these matters will never, ever be addressed while people such as yourself remain in total denial.

You yourself have made many sweeping statements about the negative effects of Brexit which hasn't even happened yet. Do you have photographic evidence to support your claims? If not, why make such provocative trolling statements?
Come on then, letís all see my sweeping statements about the negative effects of Brexit?
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  #1318  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Come on then, letís all see my sweeping statements about the negative effects of Brexit?
I really cannot be bothered to trawl through 100+ pages comprising 1,513 posts and counting, but you have to admit #1,128 was one of your classics.

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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
I have seen that comment about David Cameron and its based on his student days when he was allegedly caught experimenting with a pig in a sexual way. Clearly he must have off his head at the time, query drunk. My wife concluded the same outcome of the demographic post you put up yesterday and itís something I have seen in the lower educated in certain elements of British Society. During the Brexit vote, in my car club, I was made to feel intimidated and small for speaking up for the remainers. That element of the leavers in the club, most of them, demonstrated their low education and thuggery. The journey to the false promised land has started and nothing can be done to stop it.
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  #1319  
Old 21st September 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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What; six or eight NHS staff members holding a meeting in a public waiting area to discuss patients' treatments? I would sincerely hope not! This isn't BBC Casualty we are talking about.
Perhaps they were discussing Casualty or Holby, a good way to keep up with the latest medical issues, just the same as with farmers in the pub discussing the latest riveting 15 minutes of The Archers keep themselves informed.

Harold
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  #1320  
Old 21st September 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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It must be desperate. Almost every time I visit a hospital I see large groups of people, mainly nurses, standing around putting the world to rights; probably complaining about the government, having too much to do or not being paid enough.
Certainly not the experience of my wife who was utterly destroyed by the NHS system. Not enough nurses to staff a ward safely (she was an elderly care sister) let alone to cope with sick leave and holidays, zero contingency and just plain dangerous, staff regularly working 12+ hour days, no time for breaks, and people wonder why mistakes happen (thankfully not to her or her excellent team). My mother was recently on her old ward and frankly it had turned to **** despite the best efforts of most of the staff. Saying all that Mum was even more recently in a community hospital and there it was a bit like a holiday camp. Huge disparity between two hospitals within 10 miles of each other yet different management / ownership. Frankly the NHS in our part of Dorset is on its knees and Donald Ducked.
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