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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #91  
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

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The car manufacturers do plan their requirements down to the last second as to when the specific order is travelling down the assembly line.
Exactly, my point. but they claim can't plan what deliveries they need to cover 1 week lead time if we leave the EU.

As I said its just them being lazy.
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  #92  
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

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Exactly, my point. but they claim can't plan what deliveries they need to cover 1 week lead time if we leave the EU.

As I said its just them being lazy.
I'm sure the car manufacturers CEOs would appreciate your input!



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  #93  
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

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I'm sure the car manufacturers CEOs would appreciate your input!



Jim
No they won't. They have their hands over their eyes and their thumbs in their ears. Talk about playing politics, and our pathetic MP's just fall for it.
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

If they're falling for it, why are they proceeding with Brexit, the polar opposite of what manufacturing industry is telling them? These companies are multi-national, if we make life difficult for them they'll do what any sensible company would do - leave and move production to their other facilities that don't have the problems. They most certainly do not have their eyes and ears closed.
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  #95  
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

I am not an avid Grauniad reader or George Monbiot fan but once in a while they come up with a gem that should be shared.

"The Gift of Death

Pathological consumption has become so normalised that we scarcely notice it.


By George Monbiot, published in the Guardian 11th December 2012

There’s nothing they need, nothing they don’t own already, nothing they even want. So you buy them a solar-powered waving queen; a belly button brush; a silver-plated ice cream tub holder; a “hilarious” inflatable zimmer frame; a confection of plastic and electronics called Terry the Swearing Turtle; or – and somehow I find this significant – a Scratch Off World wall map.

They seem amusing on the first day of Christmas, daft on the second, embarrassing on the third. By the twelfth they’re in landfill. For thirty seconds of dubious entertainment, or a hedonic stimulus that lasts no longer than a nicotine hit, we commission the use of materials whose impacts will ramify for generations.

Researching her film The Story of Stuff, Annie Leonard discovered that of the materials flowing through the consumer economy, only 1% remain in use six months after sale(1). Even the goods we might have expected to hold onto are soon condemned to destruction through either planned obsolescence (breaking quickly) or perceived obsolesence (becoming unfashionable).

But many of the products we buy, especially for Christmas, cannot become obsolescent. The term implies a loss of utility, but they had no utility in the first place. An electronic drum-machine t-shirt; a Darth Vader talking piggy bank; an ear-shaped i-phone case; an individual beer can chiller; an electronic wine breather; a sonic screwdriver remote control; bacon toothpaste; a dancing dog: no one is expected to use them, or even look at them, after Christmas Day. They are designed to elicit thanks, perhaps a snigger or two, and then be thrown away.

The fatuity of the products is matched by the profundity of the impacts. Rare materials, complex electronics, the energy needed for manufacture and transport are extracted and refined and combined into compounds of utter pointlessness. When you take account of the fossil fuels whose use we commission in other countries, manufacturing and consumption are responsible for more than half of our carbon dioxide production(2). We are screwing the planet to make solar-powered bath thermometers and desktop crazy golfers.

People in eastern Congo are massacred to facilitate smart phone upgrades of ever diminishing marginal utility(3). Forests are felled to make “personalised heart-shaped wooden cheese board sets”. Rivers are poisoned to manufacture talking fish. This is pathological consumption: a world-consuming epidemic of collective madness, rendered so normal by advertising and the media that we scarcely notice what has happened to us.

In 2007, the journalist Adam Welz records, 13 rhinos were killed by poachers in South Africa. This year, so far, 585 have been shot(4). No one is entirely sure why. But one answer is that very rich people in Vietnam are now sprinkling ground rhino horn on their food or snorting it like cocaine to display their wealth. It’s grotesque, but it scarcely differs from what almost everyone in industrialised nations is doing: trashing the living world through pointless consumption.

This boom has not happened by accident. Our lives have been corralled and shaped in order to encourage it. World trade rules force countries to participate in the festival of junk. Governments cut taxes, deregulate business, manipulate interest rates to stimulate spending. But seldom do the engineers of these policies stop and ask “spending on what?”. When every conceivable want and need has been met (among those who have disposable money), growth depends on selling the utterly useless. The solemnity of the state, its might and majesty, are harnessed to the task of delivering Terry the Swearing Turtle to our doors.

Grown men and women devote their lives to manufacturing and marketing this rubbish, and dissing the idea of living without it. “I always knit my gifts”, says a woman in a television ad for an electronics outlet. “Well you shouldn’t,” replies the narrator(5). An advertisement for Google’s latest tablet shows a father and son camping in the woods. Their enjoyment depends on the Nexus 7’s special features(6). The best things in life are free, but we’ve found a way of selling them to you.

The growth of inequality that has accompanied the consumer boom ensures that the rising economic tide no longer lifts all boats. In the US in 2010 a remarkable 93% of the growth in incomes accrued to the top 1% of the population(7). The old excuse, that we must trash the planet to help the poor, simply does not wash. For a few decades of extra enrichment for those who already possess more money than they know how to spend, the prospects of everyone else who will live on this earth are diminished.

So effectively have governments, the media and advertisers associated consumption with prosperity and happiness that to say these things is to expose yourself to opprobrium and ridicule. Witness last week’s Moral Maze programme, in which most of the panel lined up to decry the idea of consuming less, and to associate it, somehow, with authoritarianism(8). When the world goes mad, those who resist are denounced as lunatics.

Bake them a cake, write them a poem, give them a kiss, tell them a joke, but for god’s sake stop trashing the planet to tell someone you care. All it shows is that you don’t.

www.monbiot.com



1. http://www.storyofstuff.org/movies-all/story-of-stuff/

2. It’s 57%. See https://www.monbiot.com/2010/05/05/carbon-graveyard/

3. See the film Blood in the Mobile. http://bloodinthemobile.org/

4. http://e360.yale.edu/feature/the_dir...g_rhinos/2595/

5.

6. http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/07/com...blet-revealed/

7. Emmanuel Saez, 2nd March 2012. Striking it Richer: the Evolution of Top Incomes in the United States (Updated with 2009 and 2010 estimates). http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/saez-...comes-2010.pdf

8. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01p424r
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Unfortunately with the current system the fact is that the world needs pointless consumption so that people have jobs and income. That's how it works. "The solemnity of the state, its might and majesty, are harnessed to the task of delivering Terry the Swearing Turtle to our doors." How true! But how can it be stopped?
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

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Unfortunately with the current system the fact is that the world needs pointless consumption so that people have jobs and income. That's how it works. "The solemnity of the state, its might and majesty, are harnessed to the task of delivering Terry the Swearing Turtle to our doors." How true! But how can it be stopped?
Hopefully slowly but surely. Trouble is if we, the west, see sense and stop buying Terry the Swearing Turtle, all those upcoming economies will rightly say they want to have him too, we did so why can’t they?
Education will be key, as perhaps will financial disincentives / incentives. Idiots like Trump and his meddling with things like the EPA are likely to set everything back by years (but hey, Trump and his mates will be richer, so meh!!). We’ve got to see the demonization of plastic as a good start but it needs to build up huge momentum to actually do any good longer term.
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Is 'Terry the Swearing Turtle' a thing? If so, I want one and I want it now - Amazon next day delivery at the latest!
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

He is a thing. Available from a number of sources which your favourite search engine will find easily!
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Joking aside, it’d be ironic if the article is the driving force behind selling more of the things!
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ukon-shrinking

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...r-report-finds
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...entral-america
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

This sums up the challenge we face very well:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...t-fossil-fuels
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Unfortunately with the current system the fact is that the world needs pointless consumption so that people have jobs and income. That's how it works. "The solemnity of the state, its might and majesty, are harnessed to the task of delivering Terry the Swearing Turtle to our doors." How true! But how can it be stopped?

Whether we like it or not we have to make some big changes to our lifestyles if we are to survive as a species. I really don't think 'jobs' and 'income' should be allowed to stand in the way as that argument could be used to justify just about anything from slavery to the use of asbestos, PCP's, CFC's along with anything else that it would be convenient to keep using.

In any case, just how many worthwhile UK jobs rely on sales of Terry the Swearing Turtle, and could the efforts of those concerned not be put to better use elsewhere?

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) that led me to start this thread said that we should change our diets to reduce the amount CO2 and methane created by meat production amongst others. That is fairly fundamental stuff, so if we have to adopt a mainly vegetarian diet to help the planet I am sure that giving up Terry the Swearing Turtle will be a minor inconvenience.

Even without cutting meat from our diets how can we justify the amount of perfectly good food which is thrown away because it isn't the right shape, or because it has reached its sell by date? And do we really need to import soft fruit from the other side of the planet 363 days of the year?

Our current obsession with consumerism is a fairly recent phenomenon which seemed to start with the digital age in the 1990's. Before then most people were happy to use what they had until it broke or was no longer repairable. Maybe rather than breeding a generation of van drivers to deliver this worthless crap we should one again build things to last, perhaps using more people than machines, and teaching our young people how to repair things instead of simply choosing the right recycling bin to put them in?

It would also help if we manufactured more in the UK and Europe rather than importing almost everything we buy from China and the Far East.

We also need to change attitudes. The fact that 'somebody else' is paying for the energy that we are wasting should never justify such waste.
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  #105  
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

How are we going to save the planet? We can't, it's already too late. The only savior would be the giant asteroid they keep talking about where a collision gets rid of 90% of the human race and we start all over again and hopefully do better next time.

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