Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Cameras, lenses and system accessories > Camera conference

Camera conference General and model-specific E-System camera chat.

View Poll Results: For your next (Micro) Four Thirds camera do you want more or simply better pixels?
More pixels please. 1 1.75%
The same number but better quality pixels please. 51 89.47%
Not sure. 5 8.77%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 27th June 2011
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,411
Thanks: 415
Thanked 2,443 Times in 1,232 Posts
Likes: 829
Liked 1,651 Times in 739 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benvendetta View Post
No more pixels with four thirds but if you look at full frame (my eventual goal), the more the better.
Olympus will be more and more off the pace when it comes to attracting new people to photography. It is these people that think the higher the MP count, the better the camera.
Unfortunately.
Nikon seems quite happy to produce a couple of 12MP full frame models (D3s and D700), and these are very popular.

Meanwhile, Andy Elliot tells us that the 12MP E-5 is a match for the Canon EOS-5D Mark II full frame camera in terms of resolution even though the canon has a 22MP sensor.

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 27th June 2011
Greytop's Avatar
Greytop Greytop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,555
Thanks: 1,131
Thanked 608 Times in 556 Posts
Likes: 1,607
Liked 873 Times in 309 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

Higher quality pixels at 12Mp resolution please.
__________________
Regards Huw


Olympus equipment (mainly)
Capture One Pro
My flickr
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 27th June 2011
JohnF JohnF is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oberstedten, Germany
Posts: 56
Thanks: 61
Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikie John View Post
To drift off-topic a bit, I wondered about monochrome sensors. The sensors we use are basically monochrome devices which construct colour data by having lots more actual sensor sites than there are pixels, with coloured filters in front - the so-called Bayer Matrix. The processing the camera combines the data from the individual sites to give us RGB values. This has two effects - it vastly reduces the potential pixel count, and because each sensor site has two thirds of the light filtered out it limits low light sensitivity.

Having been used to shooting bands in badly lit pubs on black & white film, I could get quite excited about using a 30 Mpix sensor ran well at ISO 10000. It should be feasible using current technolology but sadly I suspect the market would be minuscule.

Ciao ... John still in the dark
Hi -

This is what I'd like as well. Plus binning the 12MP into 4MP to take the ISO to the moon: I'd rather have an exquisite, noise free image at 4MP than an exquisite, very noisy image as 12MP. You can never really get rid of that noise...

JohnF
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 27th June 2011
DekHog's Avatar
DekHog DekHog is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dundee
Posts: 1,310
Thanks: 106
Thanked 120 Times in 82 Posts
Likes: 5
Liked 129 Times in 42 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

12mp is fine for me, but better DR and less noise at high ISO would be lovely.... I've printed 20" x 30" from 6mp with no problems, so just can't think of a reason I need more than 12....
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 27th June 2011
gazza95 gazza95 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oxford
Posts: 199
Thanks: 11
Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts
Likes: 8
Liked 18 Times in 13 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

12mp is fine for prints I need to produce, and I suspect most people need to produce. What I want to see is better highlight and shadow detail along with wider usable ISO range.

Also the lenses we use today do not seem to resolve much better than 12mp at apertures we use. So increasing pixel count would not help much.


Gary
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 27th June 2011
David M's Avatar
David M David M is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: A Brit now living in Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 6,605
Thanks: 39
Thanked 678 Times in 640 Posts
Likes: 254
Liked 1,312 Times in 792 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

Go back to 10mp and give us the best quality possible.

And make it retro fit the E-410 and E-3.
__________________
It's the image that's important, not the tools used to make it.

David M's Photoblog or follow me on Instagram.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 27th June 2011
Greytop's Avatar
Greytop Greytop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,555
Thanks: 1,131
Thanked 608 Times in 556 Posts
Likes: 1,607
Liked 873 Times in 309 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
Go back to 10mp and give us the best quality possible.

And make it retro fit the E-410 and E-3.
And the E-510
__________________
Regards Huw


Olympus equipment (mainly)
Capture One Pro
My flickr
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 27th June 2011
birdboy birdboy is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,362
Thanks: 343
Thanked 236 Times in 199 Posts
Likes: 180
Liked 320 Times in 155 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

I am not sure I fully follow the more pixels vs quality issue. My simple understanding is that a pixel is like a grain it is a single point of one particular colour value. The more pixels you have the better the definition of youir final picture within glass limitations. Jpegs compress your filoe size. I have often told my friends not to buy a camera on pixel size it is only relevant if you want to print pictures on A3 A2 A1 A0 etc. Having said that I can see the advantage to larger pixels when you want to crop but the lens had better be good as well.

I think the voting ought to include better higher ISO images. You can but software that improves post pictures when shot with higher ISO so why not do the processing in camera.

I vote
1st better images at higher ISO
2nd more pixels
3rd better quality only because I feel pixels leads quality.

Just my twopennyworth.
Is Ian doing some market reaserch for Oly?

John
__________________
John

OM-D E-M1, 12-40 f2.8 Pro, Tamron 14-150mm f5.8, E5, E3, Zuiko 50-200mm SWD, Zuiko 12-60mm SWD, Zuiko ED 70-300mm f5.6, 50mmf2, Zuiko ED 9-18mm f5.6, Sigma 50-500mm f6.3, EC14, EC20, RM-1, VA-1
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 27th June 2011
JonSchick JonSchick is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: London
Posts: 687
Thanks: 3
Thanked 64 Times in 55 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 105 Times in 36 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

8-10 MP in an E-1 body with a bigger rear LCD and more focus points, and I'd be in heaven!

To be honest, the 5MP it has do me pretty well - and the fact that you don't have an enormous ability to crop means I think a little more carefully before pressing the shutter button - to get the composition as right as I can first time around.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 28th June 2011
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,411
Thanks: 415
Thanked 2,443 Times in 1,232 Posts
Likes: 829
Liked 1,651 Times in 739 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdboy View Post
I am not sure I fully follow the more pixels vs quality issue. My simple understanding is that a pixel is like a grain it is a single point of one particular colour value. The more pixels you have the better the definition of youir final picture within glass limitations. Jpegs compress your filoe size. I have often told my friends not to buy a camera on pixel size it is only relevant if you want to print pictures on A3 A2 A1 A0 etc. Having said that I can see the advantage to larger pixels when you want to crop but the lens had better be good as well.

I think the voting ought to include better higher ISO images. You can but software that improves post pictures when shot with higher ISO so why not do the processing in camera.

I vote
1st better images at higher ISO
2nd more pixels
3rd better quality only because I feel pixels leads quality.

Just my twopennyworth.
Is Ian doing some market reaserch for Oly?

John
My reasoning is that Panasonic has released the G3 with a 16MP LiveMOS sensor and maintained the quality (dynamic range, noise) of the pixels (usually when you increase the pixel density you lose quality, but clearly other improvements in the sensor hardware has compensated). The proposition is in the next generation of Olympus and Panasonic cameras we would prefer the G3 sensor with more pixels and maintained image quality per pixel or stay with 12MP and so benefit from the hardware improvements in the form of better quality pixels - more dynamic range and lower high ISO noise. The latter is theoretical, but entirely plausible, especially as at a similar pixel pitch Sony offers a significant improvement in dynamic range and noise.

I suppose I am doing market research, but only for the interest of everyone here

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 29th June 2011
dbutch's Avatar
dbutch dbutch is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yateley, Hampshire
Posts: 652
Thanks: 46
Thanked 29 Times in 19 Posts
Likes: 21
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

Hmm rumours of new 12meg olys out tomorrow does Ian know something i wonder
i believe for 4/3 we should keep at about 12meg to keep the onset of defraction within usable limits
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 29th June 2011
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 22,000
Thanks: 1,977
Thanked 3,140 Times in 2,449 Posts
Likes: 3,362
Liked 4,439 Times in 2,105 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

I think Olympus know that the optimum 4/3 sensor population is 12mp and will concentrate on other improvements in image quality for the forseeable future, despite virtually every other manufacturer, including Panasonic, jumping on the 16-18mp bandwaggon. These higher pixel counts are mainly to do with marketing and little to do with image quality in the real world, but when have Olympus been concerned with marketing their products by following the herd anyway? Traditionally they've always ploughed their own furrow and (to use another agricultural metaphor) I think they are about to reap the rewards and gather in the harvest of all their hard work developing the system.
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 29th June 2011
DekHog's Avatar
DekHog DekHog is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dundee
Posts: 1,310
Thanks: 106
Thanked 120 Times in 82 Posts
Likes: 5
Liked 129 Times in 42 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonSchick View Post
8-10 MP in an E-1 body with a bigger rear LCD and more focus points, and I'd be in heaven....
Me too, but don't forget the IBIS....
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10th July 2011
David Morison's Avatar
David Morison David Morison is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fulbeck, Lincolnshire
Posts: 3,507
Thanks: 71
Thanked 588 Times in 472 Posts
Likes: 48
Liked 298 Times in 175 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

Just to put the whole thing in perspective this is a 100% crop of a photo taken on a Leica Digilux 2 camera with only 5.1 mp. Not only does it demonstrate the quality of German built Leica lenses (28-90mm EFL) but also that quality of pixels is of great importance. From in-camera jpeg. No pp except cropping.





David
__________________
PBase Galleries:-http://www.pbase.com/davidmorisonimages
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10th July 2011
zuiko-holic's Avatar
zuiko-holic zuiko-holic is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 282
Thanks: 31
Thanked 24 Times in 20 Posts
Likes: 17
Liked 12 Times in 5 Posts
Re: More pixels or better pixels?

I vote for better pixels.

More pixels are good and I would be glad to see a 16MP or 18MP camera from olympus. Zuiko lenses provide superb resolution and I believe they easily outresolve 10 and 12MP. The ability to crop 16 or 18MP images would be of great use for wild life or macro photography.

BUT! Olympus has to resolve more important issues than the pixel count.
12MP are very reasonable and adequate for most uses, as mentioned before, hi-end models of Nikon provide "just" 12MP.

High-ISO and DR performance are what Olympus have to concentrate on.
That's easier with fewer MP and far more important than pixel count.

E-5 seems to be on the right way but there is always room for improvement and development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonSchick View Post
8-10 MP in an E-1 body with a bigger rear LCD and more focus points, and I'd be in heaven!
Amen to that!

I recently purchased an Olympus E-1 and I am amazed by the ergonomics of the camera.

May I also add IS function?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honey, I doubled the pixels (2 GPix panorama) Dogcow Foto Fair 6 14th March 2011 06:08 PM
Nikon? Pah! You can see the pixels! snaarman The lounge 11 3rd August 2009 12:28 PM
Pixels - Are You Getting Enough? Zuiko The lounge 17 4th October 2008 11:09 PM
E 500 Noise/Hot Pixels Garrie Olympus E-500 4 22nd November 2007 09:28 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:35 PM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger