Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Show your photos > Looking for improvement

Looking for improvement This is the e-group critique board. If you post a picture here it will be assumed that you are looking for comprehensive technical feedback - both good and bad, but always respectful. Only post pictures here if you can deal with potentially negative constructive criticism. Anyone is qualified to comment and post feedback, and everyone is encouraged to do so. NB: "Looking for Improvement" is the place to post any pictures you would like advice on improving, no matter how bad you might think they are.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 14th November 2013
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,787
Thanks: 2,024
Thanked 1,303 Times in 1,018 Posts
Likes: 5,288
Liked 1,943 Times in 1,079 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandora View Post
Thanks Ross. Found and disabled but I don't yet understand the reasoning behind this function, and as yet I'm not too clear as to whether shooting BIF in C-AF mode is the way to go?

And btw, living in your bushland aviary with a constant stream of feathered friends dropping in for brunch and high tea, aren't you ideally situated to be shooting BIF with that M5 of yours?


Well, the wings are going, but I don't see any lift off yet.
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ross the fiddler For This Useful Post:
pandora (14th November 2013)
  #17  
Old 14th November 2013
Tordan58's Avatar
Tordan58 Tordan58 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 3,176
Thanks: 298
Thanked 386 Times in 322 Posts
Likes: 391
Liked 1,305 Times in 346 Posts
Re: White BIF

Katran,

Great photo of the Swallow.

Thanks for sharing your hints, I will give them a try with my relatively newly acquired E4.

Before getting the E5 I switched over to MF mode after the poor results delivered with AF SAF/CAF. And still use MF on the E5...

I shoot a burst (~3 frames) while fine tuning the focus to compensate for subject motion, then a second burst after re-focusing, and repeat until the subject no longer is at favorable angle/distance.

Keeper rate varies, from less than 1/10 on challenging subjects to perhaps 1/2 for the easy ones.

As for the exposure I will use A, F/6...F/8 to get enough DOF, adjust EV (-2...+2, usually within +/-1 EV) depending on expected background vs. subject and, time permitting, AE lock on the background where the action will take place.
__________________

My Gallery on 500px
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tordan58 For This Useful Post:
Hemlockwood (14th November 2013), IainMacD (14th November 2013)
  #18  
Old 14th November 2013
pandora's Avatar
pandora pandora is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 16,192
Thanks: 863
Thanked 1,504 Times in 1,455 Posts
Likes: 1,934
Liked 4,176 Times in 1,895 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROSS
Well, the wings are going, but I don't see any lift off yet.
A bird with Attitude I'd say Ross and with those wingbeats at full power it has to be a BIF mate! ! !
__________________
www.markgreenhill.com.au

* mark * Wangaratta, Victoria, Australia **
The OM-D E-M1 Mark II * OM-D M5 MkII * XZ2 * XZ1 * E3
On post-processing: The camera kneads the dough, PP bakes the bread - Greenhill
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Ross the fiddler (14th November 2013)
  #19  
Old 14th November 2013
IainMacD's Avatar
IainMacD IainMacD is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Drumnadrochit
Posts: 3,933
Thanks: 1,226
Thanked 547 Times in 490 Posts
Likes: 1,849
Liked 846 Times in 238 Posts
Re: White BIF

This is a very useful thread, thank you; I have a further question, would the size of the auto focus point make much difference? On the E-5 they can be set to small and I wondered if this slows down the focussing process at all?
__________________
Iain

E-M5 II, E-M1, E-M1 II, 7.5, 8-18, 12-40, 25, 40-150, 45, 60, 300

Website
Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 14th November 2013
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,787
Thanks: 2,024
Thanked 1,303 Times in 1,018 Posts
Likes: 5,288
Liked 1,943 Times in 1,079 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by IainMacD View Post
This is a very useful thread, thank you; I have a further question, would the size of the auto focus point make much difference? On the E-5 they can be set to small and I wondered if this slows down the focussing process at all?
You might say it halves the hit rate because 'small' on the E-5 means it is using single cross hairs whereas 'normal' is using the twin cross hairs for each AF point. In other words, for reliable focussing use the 'normal' AF Sensitivity & for separating detail in something busy with varying DoF, then the 'small' might be useful. That's my take on it anyhow.
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 14th November 2013
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,787
Thanks: 2,024
Thanked 1,303 Times in 1,018 Posts
Likes: 5,288
Liked 1,943 Times in 1,079 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandora View Post
A bird with Attitude I'd say Ross and with those wingbeats at full power it has to be a BIF mate! ! !
Really it's a juvenile Butcherbird screaming to mother for a bit of that cicada in the larder wedged in the top of that branch (waiting to be butchered).
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 15th November 2013
pandora's Avatar
pandora pandora is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 16,192
Thanks: 863
Thanked 1,504 Times in 1,455 Posts
Likes: 1,934
Liked 4,176 Times in 1,895 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross the fiddler View Post
Really it's a juvenile Butcherbird screaming to mother for a bit of that cicada in the larder wedged in the top of that branch (waiting to be butchered).
Typical, isn't it Ross? - Who would have kids !

Thanks.
__________________
www.markgreenhill.com.au

* mark * Wangaratta, Victoria, Australia **
The OM-D E-M1 Mark II * OM-D M5 MkII * XZ2 * XZ1 * E3
On post-processing: The camera kneads the dough, PP bakes the bread - Greenhill
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 15th November 2013
David Morison's Avatar
David Morison David Morison is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fulbeck, Lincolnshire
Posts: 3,507
Thanks: 71
Thanked 588 Times in 472 Posts
Likes: 48
Liked 298 Times in 175 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by IainMacD View Post
This is a very useful thread, thank you; I have a further question, would the size of the auto focus point make much difference? On the E-5 they can be set to small and I wondered if this slows down the focussing process at all?
Completely different situation (CDAF) but the Single target on the EM1 does appear, in my experience, to focus faster than the Single target small setting. However, unless you are very good at panning etc. I wouldn't think "small" is suitable for BIF.

David
__________________
PBase Galleries:-http://www.pbase.com/davidmorisonimages
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 16th November 2013
Imageryone Imageryone is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Suffolk,England
Posts: 4,934
Thanks: 1,101
Thanked 797 Times in 755 Posts
Likes: 656
Liked 564 Times in 336 Posts
Re: White BIF

Fascinating reading, thanks to all
__________________
The picture tells the story, great when you have a bad memory.DW.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 16th November 2013
photo_owl photo_owl is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,423
Thanks: 37
Thanked 129 Times in 113 Posts
Likes: 55
Liked 53 Times in 42 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross the fiddler View Post
You might say it halves the hit rate because 'small' on the E-5 means it is using single cross hairs whereas 'normal' is using the twin cross hairs for each AF point. In other words, for reliable focussing use the 'normal' AF Sensitivity & for separating detail in something busy with varying DoF, then the 'small' might be useful. That's my take on it anyhow.
so they fundamentally changed the AF points on the E-5 over the E3/E30 then?

I missed that at the time, and it seems a daft implementation.
__________________
E, Pen and OM-D bodies
43 m43 and legacy glass
loads of flashes and accessories from all the systems
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 16th November 2013
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,787
Thanks: 2,024
Thanked 1,303 Times in 1,018 Posts
Likes: 5,288
Liked 1,943 Times in 1,079 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_owl View Post
so they fundamentally changed the AF points on the E-5 over the E3/E30 then?

I missed that at the time, and it seems a daft implementation.
No. Why do you say that?
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 16th November 2013
photo_owl photo_owl is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,423
Thanks: 37
Thanked 129 Times in 113 Posts
Likes: 55
Liked 53 Times in 42 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross the fiddler View Post
No. Why do you say that?
because you posted -

"You might say it halves the hit rate because 'small' on the E-5 means it is using single cross hairs whereas 'normal' is using the twin cross hairs for each AF point."

when on the 3/30 (s) just uses the centre part of the double cross hairs on those sensors

and it seems daft to

1. not take advantage of the double cross hairs
2. not use a smaller sensor area when indicating (s), just degrading the existing area.
__________________
E, Pen and OM-D bodies
43 m43 and legacy glass
loads of flashes and accessories from all the systems
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 16th November 2013
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,787
Thanks: 2,024
Thanked 1,303 Times in 1,018 Posts
Likes: 5,288
Liked 1,943 Times in 1,079 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_owl View Post
because you posted -

"You might say it halves the hit rate because 'small' on the E-5 means it is using single cross hairs whereas 'normal' is using the twin cross hairs for each AF point."

when on the 3/30 (s) just uses the centre part of the double cross hairs on those sensors

and it seems daft to

1. not take advantage of the double cross hairs
2. not use a smaller sensor area when indicating (s), just degrading the existing area.
OK, my description about the cross hairs is probably not correct (I just thought I remember hearing it that way from someone), but the smaller area, however it is done can lower the chances of getting focus lock than the default larger area in a number of situations. The smaller area would be more ideal to pinpoint a particular focus point when the surroundings are likely to be focussed on instead of the intended subject. An example could be a stationary bird that is filling most of the frame & focus on the eye is the key area of intended focus, then the small focus point might be an advantage or any other situation where the focus point is critical. I would think BIF would be more reliable with the AF Sensitivity being set at Normal.

To quote from the E-5 manual:
AF SENSITIVITY
You can set the range of the AF target for focusing when [AF AREA] is set to M. It is
available when shooting with the phase difference AF (when shooting using the view finder).

[NORMAL] The camera focuses using a range that is somewhat larger than the selected
AF target.
[SMALL] The camera focuses only within the selected AF target. When [SMALL] is
selected, the setting display for [AF AREA] becomes o.

(Italics details were not included in the E-30 manual)
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 16th November 2013
photo_owl photo_owl is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,423
Thanks: 37
Thanked 129 Times in 113 Posts
Likes: 55
Liked 53 Times in 42 Posts
Re: White BIF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross the fiddler View Post
OK, my description about the cross hairs is probably not correct (I just thought I remember hearing it that way from someone), but the smaller area, however it is done can lower the chances of getting focus lock than the default larger area in a number of situations. The smaller area would be more ideal to pinpoint a particular focus point when the surroundings are likely to be focussed on instead of the intended subject. An example could be a stationary bird that is filling most of the frame & focus on the eye is the key area of intended focus, then the small focus point might be an advantage or any other situation where the focus point is critical. I would think BIF would be more reliable with the AF Sensitivity being set at Normal.

To quote from the E-5 manual:
AF SENSITIVITY
You can set the range of the AF target for focusing when [AF AREA] is set to M. It is
available when shooting with the phase difference AF (when shooting using the view finder).

[NORMAL] The camera focuses using a range that is somewhat larger than the selected
AF target.
[SMALL] The camera focuses only within the selected AF target. When [SMALL] is
selected, the setting display for [AF AREA] becomes o.

(Italics details were not included in the E-30 manual)
well if the E5 is the same as the other 2 then the issue of which to use comes down to a very simple equation - relationship between the target size and the effective AF area.

if there's only one bird and a clear sky, subject to sufficient dof that focus on any part of the bird will ensure an appropriate lock - all points will be the easiest way to get an AF hit, diamond pattern will normally be the fastest way to get the fastest AF lock and shot.

after that it becomes a simple matter of the relationship between the target and the appropriate target area. as you go on to say the example of a small bird hiding amongst branches is normally the best example of this in the context of birds.

on the specific question IainMacd asked, my understanding (based on the engine in the 3/30) is that there's no effective difference in focus speed between N and S single point on the basis that they are covering the same relative subject; and based on the fastest AF speed being based on use of Diamond pattern, it suggests that AF processing isn't the critical element in the overall AF process.

the relationship between the AF target marks in the viewfinder and the N and S focus points (which is what I think the latter part of the manual entry you quote is trying to get over) is shown here -



effectively the (s) AF points are well represented by the small squares in terms of the active area and Normal are approximately 25 times the (s) area (which is why the difference is so clearly noticable in practice)
__________________
E, Pen and OM-D bodies
43 m43 and legacy glass
loads of flashes and accessories from all the systems
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to photo_owl For This Useful Post:
Ross the fiddler (16th November 2013)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
White Ian Foto Fair 2 1st July 2012 08:43 AM
White Gem ringneck Foto Fair 2 2nd June 2011 11:12 AM
White and Wet ringneck Foto Fair 6 19th May 2011 09:02 PM
White Pearls iMac Foto Fair 0 4th October 2010 08:10 PM
Black and White gregles Foto Fair 9 1st October 2009 10:30 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:18 AM.


© The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger