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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #46  
Old 15th February 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Pity I can't give multiple 'Likes' to your post, Paul. I had to make do with one plus a 'Thanks'!

Jim
  #47  
Old 15th February 2018
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Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by jdal View Post
Nope, they were loaned money by Euro banks, largely German. These loans were as bad as the US Subprime Mortgages. When the crash came, the German banks needed bailing out, but ECB/Euro rules don't allow that. So they loaned the Greeks money which they then had to hand back to the banks. There were large repayments (3.5% of GDP) plus cripping austerity foisted on them. These conditions were enforced by threats to shut down their banks. The solutions the Socialists offered via Varoufakis (supported by Norman Lamont and others) were the only chance the creditors would ever have to get their money back, but for political reasons Merkel's side won and the Socialist government caved in and now Greece are on a permanent debt repayment regime, which can never pay back the debts because the economy can't grow because of austerity.

Also, they should never have been in the Euro. It's a complex story - have a read of Adults In The Room by the Greek ex-finance minister at the heart of the discussions, Yanis Varoufakis, a fantastic real tale of how these things operate. It made me realise just how f*cked we are dealing with IMF, China, EU, USA.

The Greeks used 'cheap' EU money to retire early and generally enjoy themselves. The Greek government was also profligate with the EU money, quite a lot of which simply 'went missing'.
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  #48  
Old 15th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
Seems like Paul has a deep rooted bias against journalists and the UK Press in general. Perhaps Paul would like to suggest which publications and journals the UK public should be reading and relying upon in order to obtain accurate, truthful, un-biased opinions, facts and information regarding Brexit ?

John
The Grauniad, of course.
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  #49  
Old 15th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

I'd rather be taking photos but I cant let the fear campaign go without challenge.

Paul

Your claims are based on quotes made soon after the initial vote.


Claim 1: HSBC, UBS, Microsoft, Deutsche Bank, Diageo and many more are are moving staff and downsizing in the UK.

So I did Google it as you suggested

Brexit HSBC Brexit impact

HSBC may move 20% of its London banking operations to Paris ... Google - Independent.co.uk 8th Jan 2017. - thats what they said then

Trouble is more recently they seem to have changed their minds.

Brexit: HSBC may move fewer than 1,000 banking jobs to Paris. Independent.co.uk 30th Oct 2017. Plus the CEO who made the initial claim is now leaving the bank.

Brexit UBS Brexit Impact

Source FT.com. 27 Oct 2017
UBS says London Brexit exodus 'more and more unlikely'

Microsoft Brexit impact

The Telegraph 25 Jan 2017 -- Microsoft source Brexit won't make us pull business from the UK.

This is their official response to the article in the Independent which is the one I guess you Are referring to dated 24th Jan 2017

I could go on. Remainers need to keep up with the real world.

The latest figures show that up to date less than 2000 jobs have left the city.
Sounds bad doesn't it.

In fact there are over 200,000 people employed there and the numbers are in fact growing. There are over 10000- vacancies.
Google that.

Look at the list of companies that are investing in the UK since the vote.

Major names on the list of investor include manufacturers Tata Steel, Jaguar Land Rover, Honda, Ford, Toyota, Dyson and Boeing, food firms McDonald’s and Weetabix, pharmaceutical giant GSK, tech firms Google and Amazon, Barclays Bank and stores Lidl, Aldi and Ikea are also making expansion plans. Google it.

Claim 2. Laws.
I know what matters is how much they suck and believe me most eu made vacuums cant suck the top off a rice pudding. Thats why they wanted to damage Dyson. - Protectionist.
They hide behind green credentials. I fully support attempts to improve efficiency but their unscientific approach. Is just daft.

Claim 3. Budget.
You support my point yes we debate on the budget then comes the vote. We have one vote out of 28. How is that control. We have a Development budget to help developing countries surely that more than enough. Why are we always picking up the tab? We actually have to borrow money and increase our debt to pay the membership fee - madness.

As for you last point about peace - you have to be joking.
NATO has done the heavy lifting on keeping the peace since the war.
The EU seem to do the opposite just look at what they have managed to do in The Ukraine.

Look at whats happening with their open door invitation to immigrants. (Noticeably a decision taken independently By Mrs Merkel with no reference to the rest of the EU.)


Claim 4 CAP
Glad we agree on it being bad. I see no sign whatsoever of the system being changed in my lifetime good luck waiting for that. In the meantime we just keep on paying money in.
What the EU give back to our farmers is a small percentage of what we pay the EU in membership fees.

Claim 5.

WTO trade. Dont understand your point we don't have to negotiate with WTO we just adopt the rules like we do today when trading with all the other countries.

Can we get back to taking photos now
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  #50  
Old 15th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

From what I remembered the CAP was initially set up to support the farmers in Bavaria. Other countries joined the party.

From a manufacturing point of view I understand that components can be involved in several cross border journeys to get processed at various specialist locations. For such a process to exist the borders have to have zero impact on time and cost.
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  #51  
Old 16th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post

Can we get back to taking photos now
Good idea. Brexit is probably best left to discussion over a beer or three!
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  #52  
Old 16th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Glad the discussion has not taken off into horror tactics.

Whatever we think, the dye is set. Cannot really see a way back now. lets just get on with it and make the best of a bad job.............

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  #53  
Old 16th February 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Good idea. Brexit is probably best left to discussion over a beer or three!
Nah - let's escalate things to a full-blown row!



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  #54  
Old 16th February 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
Whatever we think, the dye is set. Cannot really see a way back now. lets just get on with it and make the best of a bad job.............

Is that an image of a field of crops waiting to be harvested, but there are no EU workers to do so?



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  #55  
Old 16th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

This thread amply illustrates the problem we all have with Brexit, which is that the real facts are very hard to come by. I suspect the government hasn't got much more idea of them than the rest of us and neither they nor the media can present them without colouring them with their own political leanings. The whole thing has been and will continue to be in my opinion a colossal waste of time, energy and money. The outcome is completely unpredictable but we are where we are and I suppose we will just have to get on with it.
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  #56  
Old 16th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

As a remainer I'm now resigned to just making the best of it. The thing I really get depressed about is thinking what an absolute waste of time and money all this Brexit wrangling is. If only a cross party team of expert negotiators had been tasked to just get on with it and been left alone to come up with a deal leaving the rest to concentrate on how we make the best of life outside the EU. I don't know how David Cameron can sleep at night but then again he's probably doing quite nicely out of it as an advisor somewhere I guess. Who knows maybe one of the TV orgs will draft him in as a political pundit
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  #57  
Old 16th February 2018
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

No worries, folks.

This week's New Scientist has just arrived. The cover headline is "WHEN THE FUTURE COMES BEFORE THE PAST" The quantum twist that breaks the rules of reality.

Groundhog Day!

Harold
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  #58  
Old 16th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Speaking of Dyson, I've just been looking at their hairdryer in a store in the US. $400 - for a hairdryer! Strikes me that competing against a $99 Braun one next to it has little to do with being stitched up by EU regs.
On a slightly different subject, I'm sure that Dyson sees itself as the Apple of vacuum cleaners, and now hairdryers.

Oddly enough, Dyson also seems to have a similar following to Apple. If I want to vacuum something up I will get the 'Hoover', (also known in this house as the 'Noo Noo') even thought it is actually a Vax.

Likewise I have a laptop that I call my laptop. I don't call it a Toshiba Portege, which is its correct name.

However, I notice that people who own Dysons use the Dyson name loudly within earshot of others, just as Apple users don't have laptops; they have MacBooks.

It is a bliddy vacuum cleaner for goodness sake.
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  #59  
Old 16th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
Not just yet ! It's Paul's turn to get the beers in

John
That's not fair.

Paul has already bought one round and the French haven't bought theirs yet. Let them get the next round in (but it will have to be French wine delivered by Renault trucks).
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  #60  
Old 16th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post

It is a bliddy vacuum cleaner for goodness sake.
Not a Hoover, as in I'll Hoover the carpet

We have a Dyson V6, it's the best thing since sliced bread. Great for 'hoovering' the stairs, and the bedrooms.
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