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Micro Four Thirds Discuss the newly announced Micro Four Thirds addition to the Four Thirds system family here.

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  #16  
Old 25th November 2014
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Talking Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

My money (all 2p of it) is on a retro version of the 1952 Flex 1.

Taking design elements from the "454 magnum revolver with 30mm grenade launcher": it will have a mft sensor with an EZ 14-150 on top and a Medium Format sensor positioned underneath, capable of mounting all known lenses, via a revolutionary new "Morphing Mount".

There will be iOS, Android & Win WiFi interface, plus near field comunications to Plus Size phones and mini tablets to act as the EVF/SCP.

For those that insist on an optical viewfinder, a modular unit can replace the top mft unit and provide a conventional waist level mirrored or full penta-prism VF.

Also following the Flex 1 tradition it will cost about half a years income...

Optional accessories will include a Sherpa hire scheme and for the purists a 220 or 70mm film back.

All votes for this system will require pre-order registration.
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  #17  
Old 25th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

Surely any poll should be open ended and not coloured by choices.

I would like to see a E system camera that had faster CAF focus that the 7D mk11 simples.
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  #18  
Old 25th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

Moving on from the rumours and tittle-tattle (!), there is a serious point here - that Full Frame (24x36mm) digital cameras are gaining in popularity amongst serious amateur photographers. The high FF vote count discussed in this thread, coming from what is presumably a fairly rich seam of Oly fans, clearly shows that this trend is not restricted to Canon and Nikon buyers. It's all rather odd really - technology evolution has given us 4/3 sensors whose quality is superb; and of course it's wrapped into a camera and lens system that is light, compact and of almost universally high IQ. Why does anyone want FF?

A friend of mine had a Nikon D700 (FF) system and, partly based on my enthusiasm for u43, decided to sell and switch to an E-M1 system. He's not short of a bob or two, so also bought the 12-40, 17, 45, 75 and an E-M10. After a month, he sold the lot on eBay and went out and bought a Nikon D800 (36Mp FF) and some new Nikon lenses. His reason? - pixel peeping! At 100% he could see some noise on his u43 shots and he just couldn't live with it. The D800, even at ISO 6400, is almost grain-free. Game over!

Does he NEED massive, grain-free prints? No - he mostly views on-screen and admits that when he has printed large, even from an old Nikon APSC camera, noise is not an issue. What he really is looking for is the best IQ possible (within reasonable limits) simply because it can be achieved. The u43 system represents a compromise too far - irrespective of the end result. For people like him (and this isn't a value-based negative comment), the existence of something unarguably "better" for just a little more money is what's important - even if he never really uses those better features.
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  #19  
Old 25th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

For me personally bigger sensors only make sense if the body is sensibly compact. Even then you still have to contend with more sizeable lenses which in themselves can proportionally add more weight than the heavier bodies.
The only larger (read 35 mm) sensor body that looks mildly interesting is the new Alpha 7 II with Oly's 5-axis stabilisation. Even then the glass looks large, particularly the zooms.
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Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

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Originally Posted by Greytop View Post
For me personally bigger sensors only make sense if the body is sensibly compact. Even then you still have to contend with more sizeable lenses which in themselves can proportionally add more weight than the heavier bodies.
The only larger (read 35 mm) sensor body that looks mildly interesting is the new Alpha 7 II with Oly's 5-axis stabilisation. Even then the glass looks large, particularly the zooms.
Can you imagine how big the new 40-150mm f2.8 would have to be if it was an 80-300mm f2.8?
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Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

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Can you imagine how big the new 40-150mm f2.8 would have to be if it was an 80-300mm f2.8?
The larger side of large John
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Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

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The larger side of large John
And heavier than a heavy thing!
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Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

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Originally Posted by Greytop View Post
For me personally bigger sensors only make sense if the body is sensibly compact. Even then you still have to contend with more sizeable lenses which in themselves can proportionally add more weight than the heavier bodies.
The only larger (read 35 mm) sensor body that looks mildly interesting is the new Alpha 7 II with Oly's 5-axis stabilisation. Even then the glass looks large, particularly the zooms.
Yes, it looks interesting, but I've read that Sony denies it being the Olympus 5 axis system.
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  #24  
Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

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Originally Posted by Ross the fiddler View Post
Yes, it looks interesting, but I've read that Sony denies it being the Olympus 5 axis system.
I seem to remember that Olympus were a little coy about the Sony sensor in the E-M5.
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  #25  
Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

I think Paul pdk42 makes a logical point. Like all things photography everything is subjective, some like noise in an image as some liked grain and used it for creative purposes. But putting this to one side and for those wanting a squeaky clean image I have two conflicting thoughts on this.

The first is I still have an OM1 (got no film though) it is smaller than my EM1 which has its sensor half the size So surely its possible to put a full frame (24x36mm) sensor in a digital body moving it closer to the lens and thereby still able to use the existing mFT lenses or has the design of the mFT fitting boxed itself into a corner such that the dimensions cannot accommodate a large sensor.

The second is while it is probably true that larger sensors give less noise today for how long will this last. Todays less than FF sensors are better at noise than they used to be but so are FF frame sensors. Is the gap in noise performance narrowing?

It may be that we are having this debate because we are now pushing higher and higher ISO's and expecting ISO 100 like noise. When I first came to this forum in 2011 very few were suggesting using anything higher than ISO 400, now one of the first tests folk do with a new camera is test the ISO performance to its limits. Maybe this tells us that ISO and noise are now the main drivers for cameras?
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Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

A couple of guys in the Photo Group I go to, one a Canoneer the other a Nikophile, went to a local PC World. One bought a top of the range Fuji CSC, the other a midle range Samsung CSC.

So OK they bought the 'wrong CSCs' but the point is they went mirrorless for the first time.

Both guys were raving about the lightness, ease of handling, picture quality and value for money compared to their normal gear.

My choice of m4/3 made sense to them after I asked how many lenses were available for each system.
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Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdboy View Post
surely its possible to put a full frame (24x36mm) sensor in a digital body moving it closer to the lens and thereby still able to use the existing mFT lenses or has the design of the mFT fitting boxed itself into a corner such that the dimensions cannot accommodate a large sensor.
If you move the sensor closer to the lens then the image will not only be smaller, it will be out of focus. The laws of optics are not that simple I'm afraid! That's why you need an adaptor to use an OM Zuiko or a standard FT lens on an mFT body - it's not just mechanical differences but the distance from the mount to the plane of focus that needs to be catered for. The image circle of an mFT lens is too small to cover a full frame sensor; a bigger image circle requires a bigger lens, all other things being equal, and that's why FF cameras and lenses are so big and heavy.

The OM-1 is a lovely little camera, I have one myself, but it doesn't need a pile of electronics and motors, memory cards and batteries so there's more room for a bigger "sensor" .
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Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

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The OM-1 is a lovely little camera, I have one myself, but it doesn't need a pile of electronics and motors, memory cards and batteries so there's more room for a bigger "sensor" .
But it needs room for a roll of film Otto, which in itself most likely takes up a similar amount of space to the small motor of a modern electronic body including 'some' of the electronic circuits.

My OM4ti is of similar size to my em1, it has room for its electronic circuit boards, a film chamber and a 36x24mm aperture for the shutter

Admittedly the batteries are a lot smaller.

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Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

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Originally Posted by Greytop View Post
For me personally bigger sensors only make sense if the body is sensibly compact. Even then you still have to contend with more sizeable lenses which in themselves can proportionally add more weight than the heavier bodies.
The only larger (read 35 mm) sensor body that looks mildly interesting is the new Alpha 7 II with Oly's 5-axis stabilisation. Even then the glass looks large, particularly the zooms.
I partially agree with you Huw, it's why I love and where my OM4ti and Leica M6ttl really shine.

Lenses do not have to be bigger if they are manual focus, most OM Zuikos and Leica "M' ( or Zeiss ZM/Voightlander M ) are positively tiny. I do however understand that today most users want autofocus, but how many really "need" it? Sports and nature photographers yes, landscape etc .. no not really.

The A7II is indeed very interesting and if Canon & Nikon do not come up with a similar system in the near future they are going to lose even more ground. The 'potential' beauty of the A7II to me is the ability to use my wonderful OM Zuiko's and Leica M lenses to their full capability on a sensibly priced and compact 24x36mm sensor body. That said as I am once again shooting more film than digital I am equally happy with using those lenses on my em1 accepting the crop factor.

Regards, Simon
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Old 26th November 2014
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Re: Poll on 4/3 Rumors Site

I recently downsized my u43 gear - mainly because I had simply succumbed to GAS - but also (and contradicting what I just said!!), I think I'm going to get an A7 and add two legacy primes (a 24 and a 50). I do mainly landscapes and whilst I love my Oly gear and am in no way going to leave the system, a bigger sensor = more resolution for fine detail and that can matter in big landscape prints.

Legacy (and hence MF) 35mm lenses are not big and combined with the A7 make for a pretty manageable kit.
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