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Micro Four Thirds Discuss the newly announced Micro Four Thirds addition to the Four Thirds system family here.

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  #16  
Old 7th July 2011
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Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by Greytop View Post
Mrs Fox marking her territory (our rear lawn)
Looks like she could do with a good feed too.
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  #17  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by IPWheatley View Post
Hello Derek, Thanks for your input but its still an E5 that crave, having seen the results posted here by their owners. I have one final point to make and its aimed at John, the initiator of this post. John, you are a highly respected and very talented photographer on this forum, I have visited your website and viewed you book "The Light Fantastic" and to say that I have been mightily impressed would be an understatement. My question is, hand on heart John, do you honestly beleive that you could achieve the same very high standards if you opted to go down the route you seem to be advocating? Regards, Ian W.
Hi IPW, and thank you for your very kind words. First, let me emphasize that this is very much a personal view of how the system might evolve, most of it pure conjecture. What is true is that the E-P3 impressed me far more than I was expecting and, particularly with the massively improved focusing, I can envisage being able to get shots on it in situations that previously would have been strictly for the E-3 only, subjects such as low light rock concerts, birds in flight and grass track racing. In fact, this new focusing system has the potential (not yet tested or proven) to out-perform the E-5 with moving subjects.

I'm pleased you like my landscapes, that's my favourite subject of all and something that I once did almost exclusively until I used the potential of the E-System to help me diversify. However, virtually every picture in that book could have, and was, taken with any old camera. What I could not have done without was a loud alarm clock, pesistance and determination. The pictures in my book were taken with a variety of cameras over a period spanning almost 40 years. Many were taken on an OM1 or OM4Ti, many more on a Bronica ETRSi, at least three were from a cheap, secondhand Olympus 35RC compact, quite a few with an E-500, E-510 or E-3, and the cover shot was taken with a clapped out Kowa 66 with a lens in a shocking state. At least one other picture in the book was also taken with that Kowa and one with a Pen, the E-PL1. Can you tell which pictures were taken with a particular camera.

Just think of the weight I was carrying at times, particularly for some of the mountain shots when I also carried full camping gear. It was through carrying too much weight that I eventually crippled my knees and had to severely curtail my hillwalking. Ironically, if I'd had a Pen all that time I probably would have got even better shots, being able to cover a greater range through travelling lighter and more comfortably. The quality is certainly there and you don't need a fast handling camera for landscapes. I could go further and say that if Olympus were to develop some more primes like the 12mm, with true manual focus and a depth of field scale, the Pens would be a landscape camera par excellence.

But now the 64,000 ISO question. If someone gave me 1600 to spend on a camera what would I get? Would it be an E-P3 with 12mm lens and EVF or would it be an E-5? My head says that with my diminishing physical abilities, particularly the ailing strength in my arms, the Pen would be a better long term investment, but that's based on a set of circumstances specific to me. I'm sure my heart would say, "Get an E-5 and enjoy it while you can!"

Yes, I'm still in the E-5 camp as well, but I'm sure I could happily live with this new Pen. What I'm really trying to achieve by writing this piece is to encourage people to consider that there are a number of directions Olympus could go with FT and MFT, some of which might challenge current thinking, and to spread the word that the E-P3 in many ways is really a remarkable step forward for the Pen range.
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  #18  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by Ross the fiddler View Post
Looks like she could do with a good feed too.
Most definitely Ross, that's first thing the struck me she looked in poor condition partly exacerbated by the fact that it had be raining making her coat look worse than it was.
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  #19  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

So is 4/3 doomed? What level of support is there going to be for existing 4/3 products, and what level of development for new?

Are Oly putting all their eggs in one Pen-shaped basket?

Is there a risk that Oly DSLR users might start considering defecting, if there's a perception that Oly DSLR is a lame horse?

Oly DSLR users are already in the shadow of Canikon, with the ubiquity of lenses for Canikon in comparison.

I don't know if the Kevin Spacey ads are still running, but while he may not "want to be that guy", there may still be quite a few folk that DO want to be that guy.

Mark
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  #20  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by David Morison View Post
I would not question the quality if image from E-P3 but it must be, taking everything into account, less accomplished overall than an E5. So we come back to the point of portability and as I have said before this is of little concern when it is matched to a number of FT lenses, which are mighty beasts in their own right and become even heavier with an adapter. Even if Olympus replicate the whole FT range in MFT fitting (which they are never going to do) portability is still not likely to be an issue. I am not likely to replace all my lenses with MFT even if they were available so where is the advantage in buying a Pen? However it is still on my lists of possible future purchases but someone needs to convince me, in a practical way, that it would be a good move.

I guess I may have to hire a camera, viewfinder and adapter to settle the matter but at the cost of a good meal out with wine I will need further convincing that even this option is a good bet.

David
We are thinking of holding an event in the Midlands similar to the one in London on Tuesday - so you may get an opportunity to touch and try and a drink thrown in

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  #21  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
So is 4/3 doomed? What level of support is there going to be for existing 4/3 products, and what level of development for new?

Are Oly putting all their eggs in one Pen-shaped basket?

Is there a risk that Oly DSLR users might start considering defecting, if there's a perception that Oly DSLR is a lame horse?

Oly DSLR users are already in the shadow of Canikon, with the ubiquity of lenses for Canikon in comparison.

I don't know if the Kevin Spacey ads are still running, but while he may not "want to be that guy", there may still be quite a few folk that DO want to be that guy.

Mark
Four Thirds is not 'doomed' - it has the most functional compatibility with future systems (Micro Four Thirds) and I'm not convinced that the E-5 will be the last mirrored E-System camera. But the future is mirrorless and there is no getting away from that, even for Canon and Nikon, eventually. They will have much bigger issues to contend with during the switch.

Ian
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  #22  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
The GF1 EVF is much, much inferior to the Olympys VF-2. It only has 200,000 dots, one seventh of the 1.4 million dots of the VF-2 (and the Panasonics with built-in EVFs). Do try a G-series Panasonic Lumix with a built EVF or the VF-2 on a Pen (or XZ-1) and you will see a huge difference.

Ian
Having owned an E-P2 with VF-2 and a GF1 with an EVF (LVF1) I can wholeheartedly support Ians statement. They are like light and dark. I now own a GH2, which has a built-in EVF which matches the VF-2, and if only it were of the build quality of Olympus cameras it would be as good as perfect as I personally need.

Where a good evf has the edge over just about everything else is manual focussing, and by extension of this quality, the ease of use of many, many legacy lenses.

I am surprised, however, that Olympus has chosen to fit a tilt screen only to the "lower" Pen E-PL3 and not its new top-end Pen, the E-P3. For me, a tilt screen can almost mitigate the absence of an EVF by allowing waist-level shooting.
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  #23  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
But the future is mirrorless and there is no getting away from that, even for Canon and Nikon, eventually.Ian
I guess I have some reading-up to do. I'm not sufficiently familiar with tech & developments to know about all this.


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  #24  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by StephenL View Post
Having owned an E-P2 with VF-2 and a GF1 with an EVF (LVF1) I can wholeheartedly support Ians statement. They are like light and dark. I now own a GH2, which has a built-in EVF which matches the VF-2, and if only it were of the build quality of Olympus cameras it would be as good as perfect as I personally need.

Where a good evf has the edge over just about everything else is manual focussing, and by extension of this quality, the ease of use of many, many legacy lenses.

I am surprised, however, that Olympus has chosen to fit a tilt screen only to the "lower" Pen E-PL3 and not its new top-end Pen, the E-P3. For me, a tilt screen can almost mitigate the absence of an EVF by allowing waist-level shooting.
The E-P3 screen is an AMOLED type and you can view it clearly at much wider angles than LCDs, and the black level is better. So it goes some way to compensating for not having a tilting screen. But better still would be a swing-out and tilt screen, like the E-6xx/30/3/5 and the Panasonic G1/2/3/GHx.

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  #25  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
But the future is mirrorless and there is no getting away from that, even for Canon and Nikon, eventually. They will have much bigger issues to contend with during the switch.

Ian

Here's an idea: Take an E5, remove the mirror and pentaprism, replace with an EVF and the superb two-position Leica Digilux type flash and leave everything else as it is!

Bob's your uncle - too simple ......... ? I'd buy it!

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  #26  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
But the future is mirrorless and there is no getting away from that, even for Canon and Nikon, eventually. They will have much bigger issues to contend with during the switch.

Ian
Ian I agree with the first part of that statement, not so sure I do with the second part.

When mirrorless is a good match for what we have in DSLR's I envisage Canon and maybe Nikon just replacing the innards of their DSLR line, just because mirrorless can mean a smaller form does not mean it has to. Plus they will still be able to keep there original mount and please all of their faithful and even start another line for those that want a compact form.

I can just imagine the marketing technique " We know that mirror less is now the way to go but we are not abandoning the EF mount and our customers or forcing the use of a adaptor on our cameras to make them usable like other camera makers" .

I think Canon and Nikon will do just fine and not alienate any of there users.

EDIT, Just read Davids post, I think David and I are thinking along the same lines.
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  #27  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

The benefits of reducing the flange/back distance (mount to sensor) by getting rid of the space that the mirror box currently occupies are even greater for larger sensor cameras. The size and weight of these big and heavy cameras will reduce substantially and lens sizes will also shrink. Ask any press or sports photographer if he would like a smaller and lighter bag full of bodies and lenses and I'm sure you will get a unanimous answer.

Only Nikon and (maybe) Leica have persevered with very old lens mounts. Even Leica invented a new lens mount for their SLR range.

In any case, unless an alternative to contrast detect AF can be found, Nikon and Canon (and Sony/Minolta and Pentax) will be faced with the same problem as Four Thirds users - SLR lenses are not designed for CDAF and won't work anywhere as efficiently as new lenses designed for CDAF. If you have to replace the lenses, you might as well develop a new lens mount. The irony of all this is that as Micro Four Thirds is a direct development of Four Thirds, which was already a modern system standard with advanced lens to body communications and fly by wire focusing, the compatibility between the two systems is actually very good. The older systems of the rest may not enjoy that level of compatibility.

Ian
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  #28  
Old 7th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

This is taking camera design back to (or forward to) the classic design of cameras without mirrors eg Leica, Agfa Silettes ets etc some with interchangeable lenses and some with fixed lenses. The lens to film plane was quite small as there was no swinging mirror to accommodate.

The Corfield Periflex was unique in that being very very similar to the Leica, it took interchangeable lenses but had a small periscope device that dropped into the camera in front of the focal plane shutter so that you could get critical focus.
See
http://www.griffinbyteworks.com/phot...periflex1.html

and other sites via Google.

The SLR mirror was not a desirable feature it was a necessity to over come the lack of accurate variable focal length viewfinders, the mirror box required all the lenses to be redesigned to enable then to be held further away from the film. The Pen takes us back to the design of the "perfect" camera.
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  #29  
Old 8th July 2011
Ulfric M Douglas Ulfric M Douglas is offline
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Re: This Changes Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenL View Post
...I am surprised, however, that Olympus has chosen to fit a tilt screen only to the "lower" Pen E-PL3 and not its new top-end Pen, the E-P3. For me, a tilt screen can almost mitigate the absence of an EVF by allowing waist-level shooting.
I believe Olympus is surmising the e-P3 will mostly be used with VF-2, either new or from upgrading e-P2-kit buyers : so almost no use for tilty screen. (They are of course completely wrong, but never mind)

They must think the e-pL3 is less likely to be paired with the overly expensive VF-2 as it ( and its price ) will be aimed at advanced-compact buyers.
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Old 8th July 2011
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Re: This Changes Everything

I am happy to leave the swinging mirror behind, provided that the EVF is a joy to behold (and that is what we are hearing).

For the moment all my money went into my carefully selected 4/3 lenses and I am not about to spend it all again on m4/3 lenses

So - a "E650" with EVF and designed for 4/3 lenses would be perfect. I suspect that won't happen, so a "P650" with built in EVF that uses an adapter to take my lenses would be a viable alternative I reluctantly admit.

However, buying a EP3, adding the VF2, adding the m4/3 adapter, then fitting my 14-54 makes for one expensive camel of a camera - even if the end results would probably be excellent....

Pete
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