Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Show your photos > Looking for improvement

Looking for improvement This is the e-group critique board. If you post a picture here it will be assumed that you are looking for comprehensive technical feedback - both good and bad, but always respectful. Only post pictures here if you can deal with potentially negative constructive criticism. Anyone is qualified to comment and post feedback, and everyone is encouraged to do so. NB: "Looking for Improvement" is the place to post any pictures you would like advice on improving, no matter how bad you might think they are.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 5th February 2019
Phill D's Avatar
Phill D Phill D is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 9,641
Thanks: 1,159
Thanked 1,377 Times in 1,272 Posts
Likes: 988
Liked 2,275 Times in 1,081 Posts
Hand held Orion

It was fairly warm last night and pretty clear so I decided I didn't have an excuse not to have a go at an astro shot. First off tried a few quick hand held shots of Orion with my 17mm at f1.8 just to see what I got. I did do some tripod shots later but thought I'd post this first as I was amazed it even turned out let alone looked like stars in my very light polluted back garden.

F1.8, 2s exposure at iso200 cropped about 50%, highlights and shadows at +50% white and black levels tweaked too, sharpening at 50% but no noise reduction added.



Same image cropped about another 40%, is that the Orion Nebula! or just fuzzy noise?



Will post a tripod shot later for comparison when I've looked through them.
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
AMc (5th February 2019), Bruce Clarke (5th February 2019), Greytop (5th February 2019), Jax (5th February 2019), Jim Ford (5th February 2019), MJ224 (5th February 2019), OM USer (5th February 2019), raichea (6th February 2019), skids (5th February 2019), Zuiko (5th February 2019)
  #2  
Old 5th February 2019
Phill D's Avatar
Phill D Phill D is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 9,641
Thanks: 1,159
Thanked 1,377 Times in 1,272 Posts
Likes: 988
Liked 2,275 Times in 1,081 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Well on the tripod I used a conservative 10s as the 500 rule says max is 14.7 and 600 rule says max is 17.6s for my 17mm. Light pollution seemed much worse at the 10s exposures so I had to add a graduated filter in Lightroom to grade the exposure and also the noise was a lot worse so I added some luminance noise reduction. these are what I got at approximately similar crops to before.





On this rough test I prefer the hand held shots! but I suspect movement of the stars towards the street light responsible for the light pollution has had a significant effect.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Greytop (5th February 2019)
  #3  
Old 5th February 2019
Bengeo Bengeo is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Herts
Posts: 1,090
Thanks: 99
Thanked 197 Times in 124 Posts
Likes: 530
Liked 543 Times in 187 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Very good. Yes, that is the Orion Nebula. Nice red colour on Betelguese.
__________________
Andy
bengeo.com
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bengeo For This Useful Post:
Phill D (5th February 2019)
  #4  
Old 5th February 2019
Phill D's Avatar
Phill D Phill D is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 9,641
Thanks: 1,159
Thanked 1,377 Times in 1,272 Posts
Likes: 988
Liked 2,275 Times in 1,081 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Thanks Andy, yes I was quite taken with how red Betelgeuse came out. I didn't think that would show up.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 5th February 2019
wornish's Avatar
wornish wornish is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5,530
Thanks: 314
Thanked 492 Times in 379 Posts
Likes: 2,555
Liked 1,462 Times in 717 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Great shots. The handheld ones are better for me.

On the tripod shots at 10 sec, you are just starting to see elongation of the stars due to the earth rotation.
__________________
Dave

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 5th February 2019
Phill D's Avatar
Phill D Phill D is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 9,641
Thanks: 1,159
Thanked 1,377 Times in 1,272 Posts
Likes: 988
Liked 2,275 Times in 1,081 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Thanks Dave I like the handheld ones best too. Still can't quite believe they worked to be honest. Is it rotation at 10s? Or is it more likely to be vibration/ camera movement of some sort. Whatever it is I was quite pleased with what I got. Wish I'd realised at the time that the Orion Nebula was in view I'd have gone for a longer lens and maybe even got the scope out as well.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 5th February 2019
MikeOxon MikeOxon is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: oxford
Posts: 537
Thanks: 56
Thanked 94 Times in 81 Posts
Likes: 57
Liked 205 Times in 134 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill D View Post
Thanks Dave I like the handheld ones best too.

So do I - better contrast overall. My method of processing (using PSE) is to view the histogram with the 'levels' control and then move the left hand slider towards the right until the background is truly black but fainter stars have not disappeared. Then I apply some sharpening (unsharp mask), choosing an amount which makes the stars stand out without any fringes appearing. Noise really isn't a problem and I prefer to use a higher ISO setting to keep exposure duration down.
There is also a good 'trick' to remove a small amount of star movement, by first creating a duplicate layer (in PSE). Then bring down the 'Layers palette' and select 'Darken' in the drop-down selection box (which initially contains 'Normal'). Next, drop down the 'Filters' menu and, under 'Other', select 'Offset...'. You will now find controls for shifting the duplicate layer relative to the original and the shifted pixels will be darkened. Just a few pixels lateral shift should restore slightly elongated stars to round.
Below is a crop from a shot of the Orion nebula, taken with my 75mm f/1.8 lens, using 2 sec exposure at ISO 1600. (on a tripod). The original image is on the left, while the right hand image shows the effect of a 2 pixel horizontal shift, when using the method described above.



__________________
Mike
visit my Natural History Photos website:
http://home.btconnect.com/mike.flemming/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
OM USer (6th February 2019)
  #8  
Old 5th February 2019
MikeOxon MikeOxon is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: oxford
Posts: 537
Thanks: 56
Thanked 94 Times in 81 Posts
Likes: 57
Liked 205 Times in 134 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOxon View Post
...the right hand image shows the effect of a 2 pixel horizontal shift, when using the method described above.

Since my last post, I have checked by using 'Stellarium' that the star towards the bottom right, which still looks slightly oval after processing is, in fact, a close double: HIP26197 and HIP26199.
__________________
Mike
visit my Natural History Photos website:
http://home.btconnect.com/mike.flemming/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
OM USer (6th February 2019)
  #9  
Old 5th February 2019
wornish's Avatar
wornish wornish is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5,530
Thanks: 314
Thanked 492 Times in 379 Posts
Likes: 2,555
Liked 1,462 Times in 717 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

You both are doing great stuff. Phil and Mike.

Even at 10-sec, you begin to see star elongation it's not noise, just physics

With a longer lens, rotation gets even more noticeable.

Phil, you captured four really good targets in your shot.

The Great Orion Nebula, The Running Man, Horse Head Nebula, and The Flame Nebula.

If you get a chance, have a go with a 200mm or longer lens.

I have been really lazy and not got out because of the temperature for the last two months and I am missing the challenge.
__________________
Dave

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 6th February 2019
Phill D's Avatar
Phill D Phill D is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 9,641
Thanks: 1,159
Thanked 1,377 Times in 1,272 Posts
Likes: 988
Liked 2,275 Times in 1,081 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Didn't realise Orion had so much to see. Just looked up all those targets Dave, all pretty close, relatively that is . Just need a clear night now and will give them a go with the 40-150 +1.4tc to see what I can get. Probably need to be around 1s or less I guess for that. I used iso 200 before but notice Mike you used 1600iso, is it better to use higher iso for things like this?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 6th February 2019
wornish's Avatar
wornish wornish is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 5,530
Thanks: 314
Thanked 492 Times in 379 Posts
Likes: 2,555
Liked 1,462 Times in 717 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

The higher the ISO the shorter the exposure needed to capture the same amount of signal, but there is a noise trade-off.

Many people shoot astro shots at ISO800 or ISO1600 beyond that the noise becomes a real problem.

If you shoot with the 40-150mm + 1.4TC at maximum aperture and ISO800 then a shot of 5 - 10 secs on your tripod should be OK. Even 20 secs for fainter objects but you will see a little elongation.

Have fun.
__________________
Dave

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to wornish For This Useful Post:
MJ224 (6th February 2019)
The Following User Liked This Post:
raichea (6th February 2019)
  #12  
Old 6th February 2019
raichea raichea is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 671
Thanks: 86
Thanked 114 Times in 94 Posts
Likes: 100
Liked 113 Times in 77 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Nice thread... enjoyed the pics and the info.
__________________
Steve
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 6th February 2019
Phill D's Avatar
Phill D Phill D is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 9,641
Thanks: 1,159
Thanked 1,377 Times in 1,272 Posts
Likes: 988
Liked 2,275 Times in 1,081 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Thanks Dave I'll definitely have a go.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 6th February 2019
MikeOxon MikeOxon is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: oxford
Posts: 537
Thanks: 56
Thanked 94 Times in 81 Posts
Likes: 57
Liked 205 Times in 134 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill D View Post
Didn't realise Orion had so much to see....
Orion is surely the most striking object in the night sky and has fascinated observers since ancient times. The Pyramids of Giza are, apparently, aligned on the model of the belt stars. It has a different appearance in the Southern hemisphere, where the sword in its scabbard becomes a more erect appendage. The photo below, taken from the South Island of New Zealand, was made using my 45mm lens with an exposure of 1/5s@f/1.8 ISO 1250.

As Wornish has already written, I find a higher ISO is preferable, as it allows a shorter exposure to minimise the effect of the earth's rotation. Of course, for 'deep space' objects, a powered mount can be used, to keep the subject apparently 'fixed', but that's another story....

__________________
Mike
visit my Natural History Photos website:
http://home.btconnect.com/mike.flemming/
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Phill D (7th February 2019), wornish (6th February 2019)
  #15  
Old 7th February 2019
Phill D's Avatar
Phill D Phill D is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 9,641
Thanks: 1,159
Thanked 1,377 Times in 1,272 Posts
Likes: 988
Liked 2,275 Times in 1,081 Posts
Re: Hand held Orion

That's an impressive shot Mike but it looks weird upside down I'll definitely try higher iso next time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hand held 12-100 at night 090657 Foto Fair 5 2nd October 2017 11:14 AM
Hand held Moon with 50-200 Phill D Foto Fair 9 31st May 2015 12:21 PM
Hand held kit lens macro Phill D Foto Fair 10 24th May 2015 08:37 PM
Hand-held experiments. David Morison Telephoto 3 8th June 2014 06:16 AM
Hand-held panorama StephenL Foto Fair 13 23rd November 2008 05:15 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:04 PM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger