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Lens focus The place to talk about your camera's glassware.

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  #31  
Old 21st March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

They do carry out repairs as far as I can tell but not this lens and that maybe a just yet but I was not getting an anytime soon vibe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOxon View Post
More recently I bought a Pan/Leica 100-400 lens and felt re-assured that Leica were prepared to put their name to it, with a statement on the box that it was manufactured in accordance with Leica quality standards.
The Leica brand can be found on a chinese phone by Huawei
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  #32  
Old 21st March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

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Originally Posted by alfbranch View Post
They do carry out repairs as far as I can tell but not this lens and that maybe a just yet but I was not getting an anytime soon vibe.
Never the less Alf, it appears to be a lottery and certainly not the service you would expect from a brand that is positioning itself to ever loftier levels (product quality, performance and entrance ticket).
Nice but no thanks, IMHO.

BTW I'm glad you got some kind of solution though perhaps your house & contents no claims may take a dent as a result.
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  #33  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

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Originally Posted by MikeOxon View Post
More recently I bought a Pan/Leica 100-400 lens and felt re-assured that Leica were prepared to put their name to it, with a statement on the box that it was manufactured in accordance with Leica quality standards.
I read with interest the recent Lens Rentals group test of M4/3 lenses in the 42.5-45 mm range, and then went back to their earlier group test of 25 mm lenses. In both cases the lenses with the widest sample variation were the Panasonic Leica branded ones (45/2.8 macro & 25/1.4). This made me wonder if the oft-quoted claim that Leica oversee Panasonic's QC was nothing more than branding BS.

I am very impressed with the build quality of my PL 8-18; so much so that I decided to try the PL 12-60 as a replacement for my Olympus 12-40 (for the extra reach). I was really surprised at the difference in quality between the PL8-18 and the 12-60 (the 12-60 is made in China, whereas the 8-18 is made in Japan) and the amount of play in the 12-60 barrel when extended was worse than my cheapo Panasonic 45-150 (which is an excellent lens and wonderful value). Needless to say, I still have my Olympus 12-40.

The Lens Rental group review also suggested that the name on an M4/3 lens is no indication of its manufacturer (which reminded me that some Nikon lenses were reputedly made by Tamron). We are left wondering what the branding and marketing hype actually means (perhaps "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"). Having said that, I have never seen any suggestion that Samyang have QC problems, and I have never read that someone's Samyang 7.5 mm fisheye fell apart as a result of a knock.....

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  #34  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

I was seriously thinking of getting the Panasonic 8-18 but your experience with their service is making me think twice.
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  #35  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

By the way, I tried the 50-200 and the 1.4 teleconverter on an E-M1ii body at the show. I was particularly interested to see what the focus speed was like compared to the 40-150 Pro, since you lose the trick Panny predictive focus system on Oly bodies.

The lens does feel significantly smaller and lighter, and the zoom throw is nicely weighted and the whole thing has a higher-quality feel than the 100-400 (as it should for the price).

Focus in the artificial lighting of the NEC was pretty quick with just the 50-200 fitted, but it became seriously sluggish when the tc was added. I didn’t test CAF, but I doubt this is a serious option for anyone with only Oly cameras who wants to photograph things that move.
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  #36  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

The problem with a lot of modern lenses is that the "core" (the central structure of the lens onto which everything else is hung) is made of plastic. The mount is then attached to the core using high-bite screws that connect into plastic turrets. Of course, this means that there's a weak point to shear force at the point where the turrets are moulded into the core; and shear force is exactly what you get when you drop the camera with the lens attached. It's by no means unique to Panasonic, or even m43 lenses (I know this since I recently took apart a Tamron Nikon lens to fix it for a friend).

I can remember in fact back in the day when Olympus launched the 12-40 that there was a bit of noise from buyers whose lenses had come adrift from the mount, apparently after only small knocks or drops. I seem to recall that Olympus were exceptional in dealing with it and offered many users repairs FOC. A fine example of how to deal with a potential PR disaster.

Of course plastic does have advantages too - it's much better at resisting compression and it's mostly elastic to deformation - so dropping a plastic lens when it's not mounted to the camera is likely to yield a better outcome than dropping a solid metal one. It's also much more thermally stable so calibration issues won't be affected by temperature so much.

I find it amusing that lenses that look ostensibly metal (e.g. Oly "Pro" or "Panasonic Leica" lenses) are really just metal cladding over a plastic core. It's cosmetic entirely. When I read the usual expert reviewers claiming that a particular lens is "built like a tank", when in fact the metal is literally just a sub-mm skin on top of plastic, it makes me smile.

I suspect nearly all m43 lenses are made this way. We do know that the 75/1.8 has a metal core though (look up Roger Cicalla's tear down of it) and I suspect the 300/4 probably is too. In reality modern lenses are really amazing pieces of technology that perform at levels it would have been hard to imagine even 20 years ago.

I have nothing to complain about in terms of quality of Panasonic lenses I've bought in the past - but I do find this lack of spares availability and repair capability to be pretty shocking.
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  #37  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
... this means that there's a weak point to shear force at the point where the turrets are moulded into the core; and shear force is exactly what you get when you drop the camera with the lens attached.
Is that deliberate so that if the camera / lens is dropped then the camera mount is less likely to be damaged.

I can't see my buying another 100-400mm if my one gets a problem. Surely Panasonic must change this policy if they want to sell their new expensive lenses to the "Pro" market.
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  #38  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengeo View Post
Is that deliberate so that if the camera / lens is dropped then the camera mount is less likely to be damaged.

I can't see my buying another 100-400mm if my one gets a problem. Surely Panasonic must change this policy if they want to sell their new expensive lenses to the "Pro" market.
I've heard that argument before, but I don't totally buy it. Seems to me that if having some sort of sacrificial fail point is important then a good design would allow it to be re-connected without a major repair operation. The circuit breakers in your house have a button to press to reset - you don't need to call the electrician! In any case, it's only a reasonable thing to do if the manufacturer offers a repair service !
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  #39  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

It's a sad fact but most things today are disposable and people expect that, especially things with electronics. Panasonic are big in consumer electronics, TVs etc., and generally the products are reliable to the extent that TV repairs are becomming a thing of the past. When it goes wrong people buy another.
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  #40  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
The problem with a lot of modern lenses is that the "core" (the central structure of the lens onto which everything else is hung) is made of plastic. The mount is then attached to the core using high-bite screws that connect into plastic turrets. Of course, this means that there's a weak point to shear force at the point where the turrets are moulded into the core; and shear force is exactly what you get when you drop the camera with the lens attached. It's by no means unique to Panasonic, or even m43 lenses (I know this since I recently took apart a Tamron Nikon lens to fix it for a friend).

I can remember in fact back in the day when Olympus launched the 12-40 that there was a bit of noise from buyers whose lenses had come adrift from the mount, apparently after only small knocks or drops. I seem to recall that Olympus were exceptional in dealing with it and offered many users repairs FOC. A fine example of how to deal with a potential PR disaster.

Of course plastic does have advantages too - it's much better at resisting compression and it's mostly elastic to deformation - so dropping a plastic lens when it's not mounted to the camera is likely to yield a better outcome than dropping a solid metal one. It's also much more thermally stable so calibration issues won't be affected by temperature so much.

I find it amusing that lenses that look ostensibly metal (e.g. Oly "Pro" or "Panasonic Leica" lenses) are really just metal cladding over a plastic core. It's cosmetic entirely. When I read the usual expert reviewers claiming that a particular lens is "built like a tank", when in fact the metal is literally just a sub-mm skin on top of plastic, it makes me smile.

I suspect nearly all m43 lenses are made this way. We do know that the 75/1.8 has a metal core though (look up Roger Cicalla's tear down of it) and I suspect the 300/4 probably is too. In reality modern lenses are really amazing pieces of technology that perform at levels it would have been hard to imagine even 20 years ago.

I have nothing to complain about in terms of quality of Panasonic lenses I've bought in the past - but I do find this lack of spares availability and repair capability to be pretty shocking.
Looking at pictures of broken 12-40, I remember seeing metal inserts. I believe the inserts are moulded into the plastic matrix, the body of the lens.

It's probably best to have a weak point, and the lens is a good candidate. Otherwise the camera flange could well be torn away in a fall.
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  #41  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

Well this is what it is costing. I am annoyed as the I was told a different price 60 less that this.

Work Required:



Replacement lens required damaged.





================================================== =======================

Estimate Cost:



Labour : 30.00

Parts : 570.12

p&p : 9.00

Total : 609.12 exc vat

vat : 121.82

Less deposit/payment : -0.00

-----------

Balance req : 730.94

-----------
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  #42  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

Good god, how much for a replacement?
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  #43  
Old 22nd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

eglobal are selling them new for less than that! It seems very steep.
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  #44  
Old 23rd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

As I also own Panasonic kit I joined in on a post on the official Lumix Panasonic forum which they run. A member was highlighting a similar 'non-repairable' 100-400 complaint. Which he has escalated within Panasonic.

Based on Alf's experience I was shocked and decided to stop buying anything more from them until they sort this and thought I'd tell them that.

Damian Demolder, who oversees the site replied and is quite definite in saying it is being addressed. But no details.

https://www.lumixgexperience.panason...hp?f=13&t=6445

The scale of these charges would certainly put some of the comments there in perspective. Charging anything like retail prices for a replacement rather than manufacturing prices is profiteering in my mind.
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  #45  
Old 23rd March 2018
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Re: Broken Leica DG 8-18mm

Well this thread has certainly put me off buying any Panasonic lenses! Something marketed as a professional product and at a professional price should certainly come with professional backup and support. Some years ago my OM Zuiko 135mm/f2.8 fell to pieces one day but Luton Cameras (IIRC) were able to repair it at a very reasonable price.

The Freeview tuner in my Panasonic DVD/HDD recorder has just died for the second time - this is apparently a common fault with the particular model and YouTube has several videos on how to fix it. I just have to decide whether I can be bothered to do it again, or whether to buy a (non-Panasonic) replacement. When I fixed it last time I deliberately fitted an uprated component in place of the faulty one but it's failed in pretty much the same length of time!
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