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  #16  
Old 15th March 2019
Tram Tram is offline
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Re: BNIB, Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
It has nothing to do with your perceived popularity on this forum, I supported your original complaint but in my view Dave In Wales has made an acceptable amendment to his description of the item. It's now up to potential buyers to decide if the asking price represents a good deal or not.
Your site and ultimately you make the final decisions, but I still maintain Dave should remove BNIB from the title.
That way the description is self explanatory, but the header certainly does not reflect its minimal use.
Does that seem like a reasonable compromise to you?


EDIT thanks, think you beat me to it
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  #17  
Old 15th March 2019
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Zuiko Zuiko is offline
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Re: BNIB, Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

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Originally Posted by Tram View Post
Your site and ultimately you make the final decisions, but I still maintain Dave should remove BNIB from the title.
That way the description is self explanatory, but the header certainly does not reflect its minimal use.
Does that seem like a reasonable compromise to you?


EDIT thanks, think you beat me to it
Yes, I had overlooked the title until Jax drew it to my attention.
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  #18  
Old 15th March 2019
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Re: BNIB, Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

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Originally Posted by Dave in Wales View Post
Perhaps you missed this Paul......http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50045

Wex offered a replacement, which was not in stock, so I elected to take a refund instead.

Lat weekend I took the 12-100/EM1ii out on its first real outing, I was most impressed with IQ and the extra stop in IS.

The writing was on the wall...the Pen-f was starting to take preference over the E-M1ii and I could hardly strap the 12-100 onto the Pen-F, so I took the opportunity to return it for a refund....I was most disappointed.
Yes, I had missed that. Annoying I'm sure. Haptics on the Pen are great, but I wouldn't keep it over the E-M1ii, which is a much better camera all round.
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  #19  
Old 15th March 2019
RobEW RobEW is offline
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Re: BNIB, Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

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Originally Posted by Tram View Post
...

If you bought a new camera would you be ok if the box was unsealed and someone else had taken a few photos?
....
As far as I'm aware photographic equipment doesn't come factory sealed. I wish it was. I think shops and Ebay sellers sometimes represent products as "new" when they've had a bit of use - either tried out in the shop or even sold and immediately returned. And given some sample variation in lenses, it would be good if a buyer knew whether a particular copy had been tried and rejected by others, rather than being probably average. In this case the reasons for selling on are different and not to do with it being perceived as a poor copy.

Dave - hope you find a buyer. It sounds good value. (Maybe a different thread would help, so this conversation is less of a distraction).
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  #20  
Old 16th March 2019
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

I have, I think, amended the advert to members satisfaction.

The price remains the same 140 posted.

Good value INVHO.

I stand suitably admonished.

Scenario ....Man goes into camera dealer, asks to look a lens.
The dealer then gives him permission to take a few test shots (as happened recently with my 12-100)
The man decides not to buy the lens, says "thank you very much" and walks out of the shop.
Said dealer the packs up the lens and puts it back on his shelf as BNIB.
Don't say they don't because they do, and we all know it.
So do we advocate the the dealer put the lens in "used" section of his stock...it aint gonna happen.

However, this is no excuse for my poorly worded advert.

BTW...I did purchase the 12-100.

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  #21  
Old 16th March 2019
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
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Re: BNIB, Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

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Originally Posted by RobEW View Post
As far as I'm aware photographic equipment doesn't come factory sealed. I wish it was....
When I purchased my Leica M240 the box was definitely sealed. In fact when I picked it up from the shop it was suggested I take it home and open it myself instead of letting one of the sales assistants do it for me. It's quite an experience, but of course you pay for it. Of course digital Leicas depreciate like all 'throw away digital cameras', but the lenses definitely appreciate in value.
I also have a Leica M6 and that's worth at least 50% more than what I paid for it, even after seller's commission. I paid 800 for it two years ago and a camera in similar condition is selling today for near on 2,000.
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  #22  
Old 16th March 2019
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

I've never been in the fortunate position of being able to afford a new car, but out of interest is it normal for a brand new car to be delivered with zero miles on the clock?

Thinking about this issue, a while back my wife found just the laptop she wanted at PC World. Unfortunately they only had the display model in stock, but they kindly unplugged and reboxed it and sold it to us as new. In hindsight this might have been a bit cheeky, but on the other hand at least we didn't arrive home with a factory sealed example, only to open the box and discover it was faulty.

An interesting dilemma of ethics, I think.
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  #23  
Old 16th March 2019
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

Things are only worth what someone is prepared to pay. The key is full disclosure of the item's state, provenance etc. So long as that's done, all's fair in love and eBay auctions.
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  #24  
Old 16th March 2019
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

Even "brand new" digital cameras don't come with a zero shutter count. They've been tested at some point in an undocumented chain from manufacturing, through QA processes, distribution & supply network and retailing. (Also a camera with a very low shutter count may have been used extensively for video or using electronic shutter). DiW didn't set out to mislead at all, though one could quibble about precise terms for different levels of newness.
  #25  
Old 16th March 2019
Darkroom Darkroom is offline
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
I've never been in the fortunate position of being able to afford a new car, but out of interest is it normal for a brand new car to be delivered with zero miles on the clock?

Thinking about this issue, a while back my wife found just the laptop she wanted at PC World. Unfortunately they only had the display model in stock, but they kindly unplugged and reboxed it and sold it to us as new. In hindsight this might have been a bit cheeky, but on the other hand at least we didn't arrive home with a factory sealed example, only to open the box and discover it was faulty.

An interesting dilemma of ethics, I think.
Could be a dilemma of hygiene too ! Just imagine where all those hundreds of fingers had been before they played with the keys whilst on display

On second thoughts better not to think about it and just get busy with the Antiseptic Wipes.

Darkroom
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  #26  
Old 16th March 2019
Darkroom Darkroom is offline
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobEW View Post
Even "brand new" digital cameras don't come with a zero shutter count. They've been tested at some point in an undocumented chain from manufacturing, through QA processes, distribution & supply network and retailing. (Also a camera with a very low shutter count may have been used extensively for video or using electronic shutter). DiW didn't set out to mislead at all, though one could quibble about precise terms for different levels of newness.
Brand New cannot be under dispute. It means exactly what it says.

Stating an item was BNIB when it had been opened and used would even break the meager rules of Ebay let alone this forum, so I have to disagree. It would fall under the Ebay term of: "Item not as described" or "Misleading" despite any explanation further in the description .

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  #27  
Old 16th March 2019
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

The sample I got from Bristol Cameras did not come with a box but do I care? No. I don't remember whether it was advertised as "brand new" or not but it looks new and was a good price. This seems to me like a lot of quibbling for no good reason.
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  #28  
Old 16th March 2019
Tram Tram is offline
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
The sample I got from Bristol Cameras did not come with a box but do I care? No. I don't remember whether it was advertised as "brand new" or not but it looks new and was a good price. This seems to me like a lot of quibbling for no good reason.
Which you have now added to.
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  #29  
Old 16th March 2019
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

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Originally Posted by Tram View Post
Which you have now added to.

And so have you (THAT counts as sniping, in my book). And I (sniping, too).


I have this lens, and it's tidy and compact, gives good results. It's not the most robust lens in the world, but ...


Bought on this forum, too :-)

Last edited by Kami; 16th March 2019 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Sniping
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  #30  
Old 16th March 2019
Darkroom Darkroom is offline
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Re: Panasonic G VARIO 12-32mm f3.5-5.6 ASPH Mega O.I.S Lens, Black.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
The sample I got from Bristol Cameras did not come with a box but do I care? No. I don't remember whether it was advertised as "brand new" or not but it looks new and was a good price. This seems to me like a lot of quibbling for no good reason.
As usual you seemed to miss the point entirely but it matters not. At least it's given you the opportunity to make a post.

As long as you are happy with your lens which wasn't purchased from a forum member and therefore the purchase is totally irrelevant to the current point in question, thats fine Otto. I'm very pleased for you and wish you many happy hours using the lens

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