Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > General photography discussion

General photography discussion Please look for a specific board to start your thread but if you can't find an appropriate one, post it here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11th July 2018
drmarkf's Avatar
drmarkf drmarkf is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 4,899
Thanks: 307
Thanked 435 Times in 367 Posts
Likes: 1,779
Liked 1,115 Times in 640 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Yes, mis-perceptions die hard, that is true.

However it’s very difficult to form a mis-perception of the weight differences among different brands and sensor sizes once you’ve tried them, and as has been said already, a lot of enthusiasts (in what is a grey and ageing population) are willing to give m4/3 a try. Such people are influential on their less enthusiastic friends, of course. I know of 12 M1ii sales in the past 18 months in our camera club of 190 people, and there may be more.

No, my main criticism of Grumpy Old Git Hogan’s article is that he’s done no research on anything relevant - for example, he’s done nothing on camera sales among the manufacturers, and selectively quotes vague, ballpark figures that (strangely enough) support his argument. These data are indeed hard to find, but they are out there in the manufacturers’ financial statements, but he couldn’t be bothered to dig them out (neither can I, but I’m not pretending to be an expert). What’s actually happening to Oly/Sony/Fuji etc CSC sales in the past 12 months?

BTW the Sony RX100 series do indeed produce very usable 20mp images in low light and are marketed heavily on that, but anyone who’s used one and who likes shooting in contrasty light knows that their dynamic range in real life usage is pretty woeful compared to even the most basic 16mp m4/3 sensors. Another triumph for marketing over reality, of course: once your highlights have gone they’ve gone.
__________________
Regards,
Mark

------------------------------
http://www.microcontrast.com
Too much Oly gear.
Panasonic 12-35, 15. Samyang 7.5 fisheye. Laowa 7.5.
Assorted legacy lenses, plus a Fuji X70.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11th July 2018
Walti Walti is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 2,690
Thanks: 280
Thanked 169 Times in 146 Posts
Likes: 212
Liked 1,243 Times in 489 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmarkf View Post
over reality, of course: once your highlights have gone they’ve gone.
Unless you use peroxide?
__________________

Some Olympus stuff
I didn't get where I am today...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
drmarkf (11th July 2018)
  #33  
Old 11th July 2018
pdk42's Avatar
pdk42 pdk42 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 5,195
Thanks: 361
Thanked 1,152 Times in 864 Posts
Likes: 120
Liked 5,449 Times in 1,753 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmarkf View Post

BTW the Sony RX100 series do indeed produce very usable 20mp images in low light and are marketed heavily on that, but anyone who’s used one and who likes shooting in contrasty light knows that their dynamic range in real life usage is pretty woeful compared to even the most basic 16mp m4/3 sensors. Another triumph for marketing over reality, of course: once your highlights have gone they’ve gone.
My biggest gripe about the RX100 wasn't its IQ, but its handling. Hated it. If they could find a designer who is a *real* photographer, I'm sure they could make it appeal to a much broader audience. As it is, it's almost impossible to use except in full auto mode.
__________________
Paul
E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
flickr
Portfolio Site
Instagram
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11th July 2018
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,425
Thanks: 567
Thanked 389 Times in 347 Posts
Likes: 751
Liked 1,717 Times in 1,034 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
My biggest gripe about the RX100 wasn't its IQ, but its handling. Hated it. If they could find a designer who is a *real* photographer, I'm sure they could make it appeal to a much broader audience. As it is, it's almost impossible to use except in full auto mode.
One would be forgiven for thinking that all the designers with an understanding of photography, or better still being practitioners, changed occupations when digital came into being.

Watched the Time Machine programme on Horizon last night. If I could travel to the past Digital Cameras would instantly disappear from the present.
__________________
Steve

on flickr
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11th July 2018
drmarkf's Avatar
drmarkf drmarkf is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 4,899
Thanks: 307
Thanked 435 Times in 367 Posts
Likes: 1,779
Liked 1,115 Times in 640 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walti View Post
Unless you use peroxide?
That gives you nothing BUT highlights, squire
__________________
Regards,
Mark

------------------------------
http://www.microcontrast.com
Too much Oly gear.
Panasonic 12-35, 15. Samyang 7.5 fisheye. Laowa 7.5.
Assorted legacy lenses, plus a Fuji X70.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11th July 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Watford, Herts..
Posts: 7,492
Thanks: 381
Thanked 523 Times in 451 Posts
Likes: 2,258
Liked 1,404 Times in 902 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
My biggest gripe about the RX100 wasn't its IQ, but its handling. Hated it. If they could find a designer who is a *real* photographer, I'm sure they could make it appeal to a much broader audience. As it is, it's almost impossible to use except in full auto mode.
The RX100 mk1 had a major problem of 'self starting'. The camera would switch on spontaneously and the lens extend. Unless the user noticed, it would then run the battery flat. This would happen repeatedly. Sony initially said that it couldn't happen, then said it was the users fault. When someone posted a Youtube video of it happening they sunk into a sullen sulk and ignored further reports. There's a long thread about it on a Sony forum.

For the above appalling customer service, I'd never buy a Sony product!

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11th July 2018
pdk42's Avatar
pdk42 pdk42 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 5,195
Thanks: 361
Thanked 1,152 Times in 864 Posts
Likes: 120
Liked 5,449 Times in 1,753 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

There are a number of alarming Sony stories. The one about their cameras being "weather resistant" when actually they leak water like the Titanic is about the worst.
__________________
Paul
E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
flickr
Portfolio Site
Instagram
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11th July 2018
sapper sapper is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Leigh on Sea, Essex
Posts: 4,750
Thanks: 125
Thanked 450 Times in 253 Posts
Likes: 335
Liked 846 Times in 329 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Who is Thoms Hogan? Forget it, I don't want to know, the footy is on soon:-)
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
drmarkf (11th July 2018), MJ224 (12th July 2018), OM USer (12th July 2018), shenstone (11th July 2018)
  #39  
Old 11th July 2018
Graham_of_Rainham's Avatar
Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rainham
Posts: 7,803
Thanks: 615
Thanked 903 Times in 697 Posts
Likes: 2,133
Liked 1,502 Times in 855 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

There are photographers and those that write articles that slag off whatever it is they are paid to do...

Fortunately those on this site have broad shoulders and duck like backs, which comes from having lightweight and waterproof kit...
__________________
Graham

We often repeat the mistakes we most enjoy...
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
drmarkf (11th July 2018), Greytop (11th July 2018), Johnheatingman (13th July 2018), MJ224 (12th July 2018), OM USer (12th July 2018)
  #40  
Old 13th July 2018
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,186
Thanks: 401
Thanked 2,359 Times in 1,188 Posts
Likes: 786
Liked 1,494 Times in 681 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMc View Post
??? US$2000 is the consumer entry point ???
Nope, not even close. I've never spent and probably never will spend that kind of money on a body and I consider myself a keen amateur not a general "consumer".
Nobody pays $2000 for an E-M1 Mark II; $1600 or less is the market rate.

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 13th July 2018
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,186
Thanks: 401
Thanked 2,359 Times in 1,188 Posts
Likes: 786
Liked 1,494 Times in 681 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Being controversial is so-called click-bait, but it's a short-lived effect if the articles you are lured to don't cut it.

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
angelpaaul (13th July 2018)
  #42  
Old 13th July 2018
Olybirder Olybirder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 6,194
Thanks: 2,318
Thanked 939 Times in 747 Posts
Likes: 1,699
Liked 2,566 Times in 797 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Nobody pays $2000 for an E-M1 Mark II; $1600 or less is the market rate.

Ian
The Panasonic G9 is £1199 at WEX at the moment so wouldn't be surprised if the E-M1 II drops in price to match it before long.

Ron
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 13th July 2018
drmarkf's Avatar
drmarkf drmarkf is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 4,899
Thanks: 307
Thanked 435 Times in 367 Posts
Likes: 1,779
Liked 1,115 Times in 640 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Nobody pays $2000 for an E-M1 Mark II; $1600 or less is the market rate.

Ian
I can’t speak authoritatively for the US prices, Ian, but to be fair to old Hogey the M1ii was around £1850 on the street in the U.K. from mid-2017 until the beginning of 2018. That must equate to around $2000 and, allowing for his usual gentle twisting of the truth to suit his argument, it’s price probably matched the introductory price of the new Aiii over that period.
__________________
Regards,
Mark

------------------------------
http://www.microcontrast.com
Too much Oly gear.
Panasonic 12-35, 15. Samyang 7.5 fisheye. Laowa 7.5.
Assorted legacy lenses, plus a Fuji X70.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 14th July 2018
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 21,402
Thanks: 1,930
Thanked 3,036 Times in 2,357 Posts
Likes: 3,119
Liked 4,221 Times in 1,978 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olybirder View Post
The Panasonic G9 is £1199 at WEX at the moment so wouldn't be surprised if the E-M1 II drops in price to match it before long.

Ron
Just wait 5 years and you'll get it for less than £300 pre-owned.
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there — even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Otto (14th July 2018)
  #45  
Old 14th July 2018
Otto's Avatar
Otto Otto is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,499
Thanks: 83
Thanked 225 Times in 198 Posts
Likes: 840
Liked 730 Times in 470 Posts
Re: Thom Hogan slams Olympus M 4/3

That's the essential difference between digital and film. What you save on film you lose on depreciation!
__________________
Regards
Richard
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Zuiko (14th July 2018)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thom Hogan review of E-M1ii pdk42 Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II 6 21st August 2017 11:27 AM
For sale Olympus OM2 KIT, Olympus Bag L & Book Olympus OM-System EdR For sale or wanted small ads 3 22nd August 2013 02:02 PM
Olympus UK event: Olympus photographic experience at the Circus[/B] Southend-on-Sea, 08 July 2013 – Four Thirds User Articles from FourThirds-User.com 0 8th July 2013 08:50 AM
Thom Hogan on the future of Olympus. Wally The lounge 2 14th February 2011 08:20 PM
Olympus prediction from Thom Hogan ardvorlich The lounge 0 13th November 2010 07:05 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:22 AM.


© The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2018, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger