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Camera conference General and model-specific E-System camera chat.

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  #31  
Old 1st August 2018
Walti Walti is offline
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

So the really clever answer is to invent an LCD Bayer filter that can be switched on and off without encroaching on the sensor performance when off!

The IBIS is capable of accurately moving the sensor half a pixel, so maybe there could be a method of mechanically removing the Bayer filter in and out of position?
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  #32  
Old 1st August 2018
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

That would be cool, but I suspect technically difficult to actually do

Ian

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So the really clever answer is to invent an LCD Bayer filter that can be switched on and off without encroaching on the sensor performance when off!

The IBIS is capable of accurately moving the sensor half a pixel, so maybe there could be a method of mechanically removing the Bayer filter in and out of position?
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  #33  
Old 1st August 2018
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

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Great point regarding the sensor sensitivity/efficiency.

On the other hand, using a colour image as the base for a monochrome conversion, you can independently adjust the grey densities of the colours that those areas of the images are represented by - which seems to me to be a huge advantage. That's not possible with a mono sensor.

Ian
How many 'colour' B&W photographers see images in tones of grey, thinking they'll tweak the yellow or orange sliders in post.
When I started digital I certainly didn't. I would export to SEP2 and play with the sliders, often with disastrous and unnatural effects. Moving on, I choose subjects based on my perception and use filters - mainly yellow and orange - at capture time. It's better to preconceive than play in post production - especially if learning and retention is part of the plan.
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

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How many 'colour' B&W photographers see images in tones of grey, thinking they'll tweak the yellow or orange sliders in post.
When I started digital I certainly didn't. I would export to SEP2 and play with the sliders, often with disastrous and unnatural effects. Moving on, I choose subjects based on my perception and use filters - mainly yellow and orange - at capture time. It's better to preconceive than play in post production - especially if learning and retention is part of the plan.

While I respect your point of view, I think it's a personal one. My own view is that the creative options for converting from colour to mono are potentially much greater. Of course it requires a certain skill and more work. Using lens filters for mono also requires skill, although these filters can only modify one colour at a time and you can't modify the intensity conveniently. in the end all of the above are creative options and that has to be positive.

Ian
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  #35  
Old 1st August 2018
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

Fair point Ian.
I have found it better to leave the house with a specific 'Point of Departure': To shoot B&W or Colour, not both. I'm distracted without a clear distinction.
I then have a further branch to follow leading to my 'Point of Departure'. Am I looking for contrast between light and shadows (a well trodden route when conditions are enabling) or something else. I have gone well past wandering looking for something interesting.
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  #36  
Old 2nd August 2018
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

I like the colour sensor to shoot mono as I use the colour HSL sliders in LR to get the tonal range I want.



Though if Oly produce a stripped down version of an OMD with a mono sensor I would be very interseted myself.



Some images I know I am going to convert to mono at the time of capture



This for instance


Bamburgh lighthouse mono by Alf Branch, on Flickr

This was also intended to be mono taken with and processed in LR with my phone



Parton station by Alf Branch, on Flickr


This was decided during PP


Dunstanburgh castle mono by Alf Branch, on Flickr
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Old 2nd August 2018
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

You are of course quite correct to say that capturing the original colours gives greater flexibility in the B&W conversion. And it seems that Steve (Ricoh) and Alf are made of sterner stuff than me in being able to pre-visualise the results they want. For me, it is that extra flexibility which seems to affect the kind of photos I take. If I know that the camera only turn the subject into B&W, I take photos that work in B&W. If I know it can do colour it will affect how I shoot the subject - and despite knowing that this happens I don't seem to be able to over-ride it.

As somebody said in another thread - horses for courses

John

Last edited by Bikie John; 2nd August 2018 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Missed a bit
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  #38  
Old 2nd August 2018
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

Going back to Ian's original thoughts again, what would Oly get from selling a B&W-only body? I suspect that for the system cameras it would be a very niche market, possibly even more limited than IR-converted bodies. Those of us who are into it deeply enough have probably developed our own B&W workflows by now anyway.

But what about a lower-budget compact? In the dying days of film, Ilford sold disposable 35mm cameras loaded with HP5. I think they were quite popular - I remember going to weddings where there was at least one on every table. Lomo, Holga etc. have tapped into a retro market which uses a lot of B&W film. With some smart design and marketing a B&W compact that can deliver very high quality but with a bunch of software filters to get the Lomo look might find some takers.

My preference would be for a fast fixed focal length lens, angle of view roughly equivalent to 40mm on 35mm film and f/1.8 or so, and bulletproof like a Tough. Persuading the likes of Adobe to process the raw files might be interesting!

John
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Old 2nd August 2018
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

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Originally Posted by Bikie John View Post
In the dying days of film, Ilford sold disposable 35mm cameras loaded with HP5.

They still do, you can choose colour or monochrome. If the latter you can have HP5 with or without processing included, or XP2 which can be processed at your friendly local processing lab / HappySnaps or whatever.

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/cameras/...gle-use-camera
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  #40  
Old 2nd August 2018
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

Smartphones mean a specialised lower cost compact camera doesn't really make sense, certainly not in the numbers to make it a commercial success.

Premium compacts continue to flourish because of improved image quality and advantages over smartphones like better handling and big zoom ranges, or tough-camera attributes.

When Ilford was kicking the bucket the smartphone revolution hadn't yet been invented.

Ian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikie John View Post
Going back to Ian's original thoughts again, what would Oly get from selling a B&W-only body? I suspect that for the system cameras it would be a very niche market, possibly even more limited than IR-converted bodies. Those of us who are into it deeply enough have probably developed our own B&W workflows by now anyway.

But what about a lower-budget compact? In the dying days of film, Ilford sold disposable 35mm cameras loaded with HP5. I think they were quite popular - I remember going to weddings where there was at least one on every table. Lomo, Holga etc. have tapped into a retro market which uses a lot of B&W film. With some smart design and marketing a B&W compact that can deliver very high quality but with a bunch of software filters to get the Lomo look might find some takers.

My preference would be for a fast fixed focal length lens, angle of view roughly equivalent to 40mm on 35mm film and f/1.8 or so, and bulletproof like a Tough. Persuading the likes of Adobe to process the raw files might be interesting!

John
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Old 2nd August 2018
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Re: A Monochrom(e) Oly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikie John View Post
Going back to Ian's original thoughts again, what would Oly get from selling a B&W-only body? I suspect that for the system cameras it would be a very niche market, possibly even more limited than IR-converted bodies. Those of us who are into it deeply enough have probably developed our own B&W workflows by now anyway.

But what about a lower-budget compact? In the dying days of film, Ilford sold disposable 35mm cameras loaded with HP5. I think they were quite popular - I remember going to weddings where there was at least one on every table. Lomo, Holga etc. have tapped into a retro market which uses a lot of B&W film. With some smart design and marketing a B&W compact that can deliver very high quality but with a bunch of software filters to get the Lomo look might find some takers.

My preference would be for a fast fixed focal length lens, angle of view roughly equivalent to 40mm on 35mm film and f/1.8 or so, and bulletproof like a Tough. Persuading the likes of Adobe to process the raw files might be interesting!

John
"Niche market..."
You could be right, but Leica sees a big enough market to release not one but two. A third the M10M will follow shortly.
The M246 was the only reason Ralph Gibson migrated to the 'dark side'.

"In the dying days of film..."
Ha, film is only dead for the people who don't use it, the lazy photographers.
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