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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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Old 12th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

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Originally Posted by Bengeo View Post
Thanks for that. I treat the quoted range distances the same way we look at the manufacturer's MPG claims! 60 miles ... I would always be worried about getting stuck in traffic and having to drive home with no heating, wipers, lights etc!
Getting stuck in traffic is not a problem. Slow speeds are economical, and at halt you don't use transmission power (the Lion Battery)

Heating and cooling come from the Lion battery, but lights, wipers radio etc come from a lead acid battery. Which is charged up at the same time as the Lion battery.

For commuting less than 20-30 miles one way is no problem. And very cheap. Zero road tax.....And servicing is relatively cheap as well.

But they won't suit everyone, I have a petrol car in case of emergencies...……...
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Old 12th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
Just think of all the extra CO2 produced at the power stations, or how many new nuclear power stations will be needed if we all switch to electric cars?
I find it absurd that the electric car industry already has three completely incompatible types of power connector if we include Tesla. The Tesla is undoubtedly a very innovative car, but Elon Musk seems to be modelling himself on the late Steve Jobs in more ways than one.


One fact which is conveniently forgotten by those advocating electric cars is that the charge/discharge cycle of storage batteries is only about 40% efficient, so a lot of precious energy is wasted. There is also quote a lot of energy wasted between the power station and the consumers' premises.
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Old 12th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

And transporting oil around the world is efficient??????????????.
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Old 13th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
One fact which is conveniently forgotten by those advocating electric cars is that the charge/discharge cycle of storage batteries is only about 40% efficient, so a lot of precious energy is wasted.
Not sure I understand what you’re saying here, are you saying that for every 10kWh I pull from the mains (and am paying for) only 4 kWh ends up in the car battery? Where does the other 6 go??

It’s early and I’m not thinking straight (again!)
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Old 13th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

Nigel has a point. Certainly in lead acid batteries, they need quite a lot more power to charge them that ends up in the cells. Unsure of the figure. The excess goes in heat, and just gets lost as the cells can only take so much charge at a time. Smart chargers help to reduce that waste. I am no expert on this tho'...….

If price is a factor, ie cost per mile, on the basis that the market charges a reasonable amount for fuel, then the EV's win hands down. 2p a mile is often quoted, whereas a 40mpg ICE costs around 15p per mile. (All a bit ish)

Another pedantic point is the efficiency of a petrol engine. A lot of the fuel burn ends up in heat, certainly wasted in the summer, and noise etc.

The electric vehicle (EV) is in its infancy and will be developed much more IMHO.
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Old 13th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

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he excess goes in heat, and just gets lost as the cells can only take so much charge at a time. Smart chargers help to reduce that waste.
That doesn't sound quite right (caveat noted). As a lead/acid battery becomes charged the charging current drops, presumably to zero when fully charged.

I have a smart charger for AA and AAA cells. It checks the state of charge and tops it up, recycling fully if nearly empty. I don't know if other "smart" chargers do something similar.

I suspect that, so long as the charging current has to fight against the tendency for the battery to push current in the other direction (back EMF), all charging systems will be quite inefficient.

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Re: Electric Car Question

I am not an expert Harold. I know that my boat lead acids take a large amount of charging to get them 100%. As you say the cell resistance rises as they take more charge.

I did have a smart charge system on the boat, which tricked the cells into taking faster charges. But has since disconnected it as it seemed to have stopped working. My alternator man says that its not needed with the newer alternator that has been fitted....we digress a bit...….
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Old 13th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

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I use Ecotricity, so all my power is from solar and wind...………...
That's excellent but if we all decided to switch to electric cars, would there be enough green power for everyone?
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Re: Electric Car Question

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Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
Getting stuck in traffic is not a problem. Slow speeds are economical, and at halt you don't use transmission power (the Lion Battery)

Heating and cooling come from the Lion battery, but lights, wipers radio etc come from a lead acid battery. Which is charged up at the same time as the Lion battery.

For commuting less than 20-30 miles one way is no problem. And very cheap. Zero road tax.....And servicing is relatively cheap as well.

But they won't suit everyone, I have a petrol car in case of emergencies...……...
And there lies the problem, we'll need two cars instead of one!

I've just come back from a week exploring Pembrokeshire, which was a 250 mile drive to get there and back across mid-Wales so I'd have to use my petrol car to take my luggage and make the trip. But an electric car would cope with my normal weekly shopping trips.

And if I went for a hybrid, then I'd only get around 30 miles on the battery and then spend the rest of every journey using the petrol engine and lugging around a heavy battery that takes up what would otherwise be useful boot space! (When I looked at the Golf GTE hybrid I realised that the internal space in it was no more than that in a cheaper petrol-engine Polo

Chris
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Old 13th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

There's a huge amount of research into batteries and other power sources and I suspect that a few more increases in range and reduced charge times will see an explosion in sales.
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Old 13th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

[QUOTE=steverh;45758I suspect that a few more increases in range and reduced charge times will see an explosion in sales.[/QUOTE]

Lithium cells?

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Old 13th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

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Originally Posted by steverh View Post
There's a huge amount of research into batteries and other power sources and I suspect that a few more increases in range and reduced charge times will see an explosion in sales.
And of course we need a lot more fast chargers. generally they are only available at motorway service stations. Slow chargers are only of use for overnight charging.

We are the beginning of the mass technology. Does need ironing out to be satisfactory. Suits me though at the mo...………..
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Old 13th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

Following on from my last post, I've been researching to see if I could drive an electric car to Stafford (my local town centre) and charge it up again while I shop.

But no I can't as the only charging points in Stafford are at a couple of hotels it seems, both some way from the shops!
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Old 13th September 2018
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Re: Electric Car Question

An article to clear up some misconceptions / for further discussion:
https://www.theguardian.com/football...-electric-cars


and a link to an organisation whose mission is "To accelerate a sustainable shift to low carbon vehicles and fuels in the UK and thereby stimulate opportunities for UK businesses” and who have done some interesting collation of research into issues surrounding low carbon vehicles:

https://www.lowcvp.org.uk/news




@Zuiko - basically, the extra power station stuff would be more than offset by the reduction in usage of fossil fuels in the engines themselves (this both in terms of energy used, and also in terms of CO2 produced). In Norway and France, the difference would be greatest as they rely on hydroelectric and nuclear for energy generation, but we're not talking about NO / FR. Here in the UK, our energy mix has changed in the past few years, but solar and wind are now significant; and gas / nuclear basically form our "backbone" at present, with more gas and also coal-turned-back-on taking up any slack on a calm winter's night.

Last edited by Kami; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:31 PM. Reason: .
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Re: Electric Car Question

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Originally Posted by CJJE View Post
Following on from my last post, I've been researching to see if I could drive an electric car to Stafford (my local town centre) and charge it up again while I shop.

But no I can't as the only charging points in Stafford are at a couple of hotels it seems, both some way from the shops!
https://map.openchargemap.io/

There are quite a few charging points, but I think they are type 2's which are fairly slow chargers. OK for a top up whilst you are waiting....

Another point is that if everyone decided to buy an electric car tomorrow, there are just not enough public charge points around. Bit of a horse and cart situation...……...

PS I used to live in Weeping Cross, very many years ago...……….
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