Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Out of Focus area > The lounge

The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 14th September 2018
MJ224's Avatar
MJ224 MJ224 is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 8,971
Thanks: 575
Thanked 451 Times in 427 Posts
Likes: 4,180
Liked 2,140 Times in 1,070 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
These days it is more about transporting LNG (liquefied natural gas) around the world to pump in to the UK gas grid and power gas fired power stations generating electricity for, amongst other things, 'eco friendly' electric cars.

LNG is also synthesised into diesel fuel oil and chemical derivatives. Crude oil is less important now than in the past.

There is also a huge business in shipping wood pellets from the Americas to the UK and Europe to burn as 'biomass' in electricity generating stations and for steam heating. (This was the subject of a political scandal in Northern Ireland).
That is a very good point. Oil is such a huge chemical stock, for medicines evil plastic etc. Just to burn it is a waste in the long run...……..

As for burning biomass, I think they justified as you can grow it again. But fallen trees support so much insect and plant life, without which the whole natural system breaks down...…..

Humanity...………..But hopefully we are getting smarter (oh yea)..
__________________
My Sailing Page

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (16th September 2018)
  #47  
Old 16th September 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,787
Thanks: 306
Thanked 437 Times in 374 Posts
Likes: 2,476
Liked 1,760 Times in 1,202 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimP View Post
How much electricity does that 70p provide?
Around 5 KW/Hr (at 15 pence per KW/Hr), which wouldn't get you very far.

To put it into perspective, you could boil a 3 KW electric kettle for around an hour and a half for the same money, or run a 10 KW electric shower for half an hour.

At a guess, you would need around 10 KW to maintain a speed of 70 MPH on the motorway on level ground. You would need additional power (say 2KW) for heating in wintertime, which comes free with an internal combustion engine!

Hybrid cars clearly have advantages in stop-start traffic, provided the traffic jam is not too long, but they actually use more energy (with greater emissions) if driving on uncluttered roads.

A friend ran a Mitsubishi plug in hybrid 4 x 4 for three years, but sold it and bought a Jag F-Pace because he was so disappointed with the fuel economy. He now gets 60 MPG plus on a run, which is nearly double what he could achieve with the Mitsubishi.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 17th September 2018
Gate Keeper's Avatar
Gate Keeper Gate Keeper is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Nairobi
Posts: 1,263
Thanks: 141
Thanked 46 Times in 43 Posts
Likes: 752
Liked 333 Times in 161 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Oh for the love of an imaginary friend......the evidence

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...der-phev/specs

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV prices and specs

PRICES AND SPECS

Name sort icon 0-62mph Top speed CO2 MPG

2.0 PHEV 3H 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg

2.0 PHEV 3H 5dr Auto (Leather) 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV 4H 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV 4HS 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV 5H 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV 5HS 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV Juro 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV Juro 5dr Auto (Leather) 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV Kotu 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV Kotu 5dr Auto (Leather) 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
__________________
All the best

Phil
https://www.flickr.com/gp/gatekeeperphil/44A3Dc

If you are reading this, it is because you are on my ignore list
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 17th September 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,787
Thanks: 306
Thanked 437 Times in 374 Posts
Likes: 2,476
Liked 1,760 Times in 1,202 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
Oh for the love of an imaginary friend......the evidence

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...der-phev/specs

Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV prices and specs

PRICES AND SPECS

Name sort icon 0-62mph Top speed CO2 MPG

2.0 PHEV 3H 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg

2.0 PHEV 3H 5dr Auto (Leather) 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV 4H 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV 4HS 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV 5H 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV 5HS 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV Juro 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV Juro 5dr Auto (Leather) 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV Kotu 5dr Auto 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg
2.0 PHEV Kotu 5dr Auto (Leather) 11.00secs 106mph 41g/km 166.10mpg

Oh for the love of imaginary specifications.

Do you really believe this stuff?

Wasn't there even a suggestions that some of VW Audi group NOX emissions were higher than they should have been?

Specifications are fairly meaningless unless you know how they have been arrived at. Claimed MPG is also meaningless when you find yourself at a filling station far more often than the salesman and marketing bollox led you to expect. Just in case you weren't aware the claimed figures are not always true in the real world.

The friend I referred to is real, and is a retired university professor. He is fastidious in record keeping and had entered detailed information about fuel spend, volume and mileage into an Excel spreadsheet.

MPG when using a fully charged battery is of course zero, but he found that the mileage achievable on battery power alone was much lower than the nominal 25 miles than he was led to expect. MPG on longer journeys around Devon where he lives worked out at little better than 30 MPG average.

By contrast he now enjoys reported MPG's of 60 + from his new F-Pace, although his detailed records show that the best true MPG achievable is closer to 54 MPG - a figure that I would concur with from my own XF 3.0.

As an added bonus he no longer has to drive a car which at best could be described as hideous in my view, and is also built in the UK.

For what it is worth I have included the F-Pace specifications below, but do not claim these are any more accurate than those of other manufacturers.

Jaguar F-Pace prices and Specs from the same source.

2.0d Portfolio 5dr 8.50secs 130mph 129g/km 57.70mpg 39 450
2.0d Portfolio 5dr Auto AWD 8.70secs 129mph 139g/km 53.30mpg 43 060
2.0d Portfolio 5dr AWD 8.70secs 129mph 134g/km 54.30mpg 41 310
2.0d Prestige 5dr 8.50secs 130mph 129g/km 57.70mpg 34 450
2.0d Prestige 5dr Auto AWD 8.70secs 129mph 139g/km 53.30mpg 38 060
2.0d Prestige 5dr AWD 8.70secs 129mph 134g/km 54.30mpg 36 310
2.0d R-Sport 5dr 8.50secs 130mph 129g/km 57.70mpg 36 950
2.0d R-Sport 5dr Auto AWD 8.70secs 129mph 139g/km 53.30mpg 40 560
2.0d R-Sport 5dr AWD 8.70secs 129mph 134g/km 54.30mpg 38 810
3.0 Supercharged V6 S 5dr Auto AWD 5.50secs 155mph 209g/km 31.70mpg 51 595
3.0d V6 1st Edition 5dr Auto AWD 5.80secs 150mph 159g/km 47.10mpg 64 520
3.0d V6 S 5dr Auto AWD 6.20secs 150mph 159g/km 47.10mpg 51 595
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 17th September 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Watford, Herts..
Posts: 6,916
Thanks: 334
Thanked 487 Times in 419 Posts
Likes: 2,014
Liked 1,205 Times in 786 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
MPG when using a fully charged battery is of course zero
Actually ∞, but IKWYM! (GPM is zero)



Jim
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (17th September 2018)
  #51  
Old 17th September 2018
Gate Keeper's Avatar
Gate Keeper Gate Keeper is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Nairobi
Posts: 1,263
Thanks: 141
Thanked 46 Times in 43 Posts
Likes: 752
Liked 333 Times in 161 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Clearly the fuel economy for the Pace is poor when compared to the Mitsubishi Electric Hybrid.
__________________
All the best

Phil
https://www.flickr.com/gp/gatekeeperphil/44A3Dc

If you are reading this, it is because you are on my ignore list
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 17th September 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Watford, Herts..
Posts: 6,916
Thanks: 334
Thanked 487 Times in 419 Posts
Likes: 2,014
Liked 1,205 Times in 786 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Didn't Top Gear do a test where a Prius went round a circuit with a BMW M3 following, and the BMW returned the same fuel consumption?

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 17th September 2018
MJ224's Avatar
MJ224 MJ224 is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 8,971
Thanks: 575
Thanked 451 Times in 427 Posts
Likes: 4,180
Liked 2,140 Times in 1,070 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

IMHO, the Phev and similar hybrids are just a tax fiddle.

30 miles battery capacity is a joke. They are able to call themselves an electric car and this get subsidies from the government, zero road tax and if unfortunate enough to live near London, no pollution tax to enter that den...
__________________
My Sailing Page

My Flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (17th September 2018)
  #54  
Old 17th September 2018
Gate Keeper's Avatar
Gate Keeper Gate Keeper is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Nairobi
Posts: 1,263
Thanks: 141
Thanked 46 Times in 43 Posts
Likes: 752
Liked 333 Times in 161 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
Didn't Top Gear do a test where a Prius went round a circuit with a BMW M3 following, and the BMW returned the same fuel consumption?

Jim
This is a link about it and top gear video from tree hugger dot com.
https://www.treehugger.com/cars/why-...vs-bmw-m3.html
__________________
All the best

Phil
https://www.flickr.com/gp/gatekeeperphil/44A3Dc

If you are reading this, it is because you are on my ignore list
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 17th September 2018
Gate Keeper's Avatar
Gate Keeper Gate Keeper is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Nairobi
Posts: 1,263
Thanks: 141
Thanked 46 Times in 43 Posts
Likes: 752
Liked 333 Times in 161 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
IMHO, the Phev and similar hybrids are just a tax fiddle.

30 miles battery capacity is a joke. They are able to call themselves an electric car and this get subsidies from the government, zero road tax and if unfortunate enough to live near London, no pollution tax to enter that den...
You are correct Mark. Courtesy of Lord Mayor Khan. Now he is calling for a second referendum, his game - vote winner or political suicide. He should be concentrating on more policing of the streets and cutting back on murders ......On the plus side, reducing pollution in London has to be a good thing.
__________________
All the best

Phil
https://www.flickr.com/gp/gatekeeperphil/44A3Dc

If you are reading this, it is because you are on my ignore list
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 17th September 2018
Otto's Avatar
Otto Otto is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,118
Thanks: 80
Thanked 205 Times in 178 Posts
Likes: 669
Liked 570 Times in 373 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

I have a friend who has a Toyota Prius and he was amazed when I told him the average mpg I get from my (petrol) Alfa Giulietta. About 10% better than his Prius!
__________________
Regards
Richard
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Naughty Nigel (17th September 2018)
  #57  
Old 17th September 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,787
Thanks: 306
Thanked 437 Times in 374 Posts
Likes: 2,476
Liked 1,760 Times in 1,202 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
Clearly the fuel economy for the Pace is poor when compared to the Mitsubishi Electric Hybrid.
Why 'clearly'? That was not my experience when I was loaned an F-Pace for a few days as a courtesy car.

My only disappointment was that it wasn't an F-Type. That would have been fun.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 17th September 2018
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 7,787
Thanks: 306
Thanked 437 Times in 374 Posts
Likes: 2,476
Liked 1,760 Times in 1,202 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
I have a friend who has a Toyota Prius and he was amazed when I told him the average mpg I get from my (petrol) Alfa Giulietta. About 10% better than his Prius!
Why should anyone be surprised by this?

It is generally better to shorten supply chains as much as possible.

It makes more sense to connect an engine directly to a clutch, gearbox and driving wheels than to drive a generator to charge a battery to drive a motor to drive the wheels. If you charge the batteries from the mains it just gets worse unless you have plentiful supplies of genuinely clean energy such as hydro or wind power.

The Prius only benefits in mixed driving conditions where it spends at least some time in stop-start traffic having been driven on open roads first. There is no benefit in only driving a hybrid on open roads. Similarly there is no benefit in only driving a hybrid in towns unless it can be charged from the mains first.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
OM USer (21st September 2018)
  #59  
Old 19th September 2018
Gate Keeper's Avatar
Gate Keeper Gate Keeper is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Nairobi
Posts: 1,263
Thanks: 141
Thanked 46 Times in 43 Posts
Likes: 752
Liked 333 Times in 161 Posts
Re: Electric Car Question



Spoil yourself NN
__________________
All the best

Phil
https://www.flickr.com/gp/gatekeeperphil/44A3Dc

If you are reading this, it is because you are on my ignore list
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
MJ224 (20th September 2018)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric Highway MJ224 Foto Fair 3 27th December 2017 05:42 PM
Electric pole Beagletorque Foto Fair 8 10th November 2014 12:20 PM
Electric Savings ? Chevvyf1 The lounge 22 27th November 2013 05:19 PM
Electric Giraffes shenstone Foto Fair 1 16th August 2009 09:11 PM
Electric Oyster Barr1e The lounge 3 28th November 2008 06:39 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:37 AM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2018, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger