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Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II The second Micro Four Thirds camera that offers phase detect focusing so you can use Four Thirds DSLR lenses normally as well a Micro Four Thirds lenses.

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Old 30th May 2018
raichea raichea is offline
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
With regard to the Lock-Up malarkey, if the manufacturer incorporated a data logger within the system (stored in E^2 memory for example) it would be a simple job for them to diagnose issues such as this. Other manufacturers do this, eg Leica, which I know to be fact, revealed to me in written communication when my M240 went back for investigation.
I'd be amazed if Olympus weren't logging some information that they thought might be useful in case of errors.

In addition, while logging can and does help to resolve bugs, there are classes of errors that logging may not offer any help at all - in particular, race hazards. In fact, the use of logging can hide race hazards due to changing the timing of the events causing the problem.
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  #152  
Old 30th May 2018
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

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How do we know they don't incorporate a data logger ? I doubt if Olympus would make the fact public knowledge.

John
Maybe they do, but if they have incorporated a logger why does it take so long to resolve the issues.
Not just Olympus, many camera manufactures seem to 'employ' the general public as part of their development team. Imagine a TV disappearing up its own armpit, they'd go out of business pdq if not resolved.
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  #153  
Old 30th May 2018
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

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Originally Posted by raichea View Post
I'd be amazed if Olympus weren't logging some information that they thought might be useful in case of errors.

In addition, while logging can and does help to resolve bugs, there are classes of errors that logging may not offer any help at all - in particular, race hazards. In fact, the use of logging can hide race hazards due to changing the timing of the events causing the problem.
Race hazards I know well. It's sorted in the design phase. In the past by pen and paper, then spreadsheets and now s/w emulation. As an example an FPGA can be emulated with all the timing tolerances coupled with temperature effects etc.
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  #154  
Old 30th May 2018
TimP TimP is offline
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

Presumably any data logged is uploaded at some point? At time of firmware update? When connecting camera to Viewer etc? Surely they don’t rely on getting hold of it should they ever receive a camera in the workshops for repair / investigation?
  #155  
Old 30th May 2018
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

I guess error files are read at the repair facility if and when the camera is returned, e.g. when the user says 'enough is enough'.
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Old 30th May 2018
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

I've noticed Microsoft running telemetry on my computer, error log or something like that. It's all possible.
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  #157  
Old 30th May 2018
raichea raichea is offline
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Race hazards I know well. It's sorted in the design phase. In the past by pen and paper, then spreadsheets and now s/w emulation. As an example an FPGA can be emulated with all the timing tolerances coupled with temperature effects etc.
Ideally, yes. But, while modern design tools can do a lot to help ensure timing tolerances are accounted for in logic circuitry, it's much more difficult to account for many asynchronous inputs such as from the multiple buttons switches and dials on the camera. Factoring in real-time interrupt-driven software running on multi-core processors makes it even harder.
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Old 30th May 2018
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

Blimey this thread has taken on a life of it's own
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Old 30th May 2018
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

My own experience of the EM1 I and 2 has never had a lock up...

So there....

Was a bit of a troll I reckon....
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Old 30th May 2018
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

On the plus side it keeps us amused.
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  #161  
Old 30th May 2018
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

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Unless you have all the Win10 invasive options set to "Off", Microsoft collect information on everything that happens on the PC via Windows Error Reporting and then save it it their Win Log Files. They probably even know what you had for breakfast If you're a Kapersky user, maybe Putin knows too

I have CCleaner configured to delete all the log files every time the PC or laptop shuts down. This does mean the files would no longer be any assistance in the event of a problem but at least it deters Microsoft's invasive Big Brother Syndrome

Microsoft is the most invasive data collection system on the planet, followed closely by Google !

John
Yep, that's why despite being a Windows user since version 3 I abandoned it in favour of Mac and OSX/MacOS 18 months ago and have never looked back or had such a peaceful user experience. None of my remaining Windows systems (professional use) are allowed to progress beyond Windows 7 except the servers which are a whole other ball game. I also have as little to do with Google as humanly possible, including Android etc. I - don't - trust - any - of - them.

Anyhoo, not to drift off-topic, the purpose of this post is to address those who thing that debugging and troubleshooting is as simple as recording a log for later examination. Let me tell you, useful as they may seem to be, for lock-ups they are next to useless. A locked, deadlocked or wait-listed processor is usually unable to record log events. In many years of working with IT systems no logs have ever been really useful, lock-ups more quickly resolved by component swap which is not so easy on an integrated digital device. Changing batteries, memory cards or lenses seems to me to be more likely to lead to a resolution.

I would also report a couple of years use of an EM-1 Mk I without a single lock-up and look forward to a similar experience with my recently acquired Mk II.
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  #162  
Old 30th May 2018
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

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Originally Posted by jima View Post
Yep, that's why despite being a Windows user since version 3 I abandoned it in favour of Mac and OSX/MacOS 18 months ago and have never looked back or had such a peaceful user experience. None of my remaining Windows systems (professional use) are allowed to progress beyond Windows 7 except the servers which are a whole other ball game. I also have as little to do with Google as humanly possible, including Android etc. I - don't - trust - any - of - them.

Anyhoo, not to drift off-topic, the purpose of this post is to address those who thing that debugging and troubleshooting is as simple as recording a log for later examination. Let me tell you, useful as they may seem to be, for lock-ups they are next to useless. A locked, deadlocked or wait-listed processor is usually unable to record log events. In many years of working with IT systems no logs have ever been really useful, lock-ups more quickly resolved by component swap which is not so easy on an integrated digital device. Changing batteries, memory cards or lenses seems to me to be more likely to lead to a resolution.

I would also report a couple of years use of an EM-1 Mk I without a single lock-up and look forward to a similar experience with my recently acquired Mk II.
Has James lost it? I do not understand what he is trying to get at, the whole thread is a troll......

WGAF.................
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  #163  
Old 31st May 2018
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

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Originally Posted by jima View Post
......In many years of working with IT systems no logs have ever been really useful......
Presumably not working in a professional capacity then. Windows event logs (server and desktop O/S) can be a surprisingly useful, and often overlooked, source of information.

(Should I stop feeding the trolls now?)
  #164  
Old 31st May 2018
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

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Originally Posted by TimP View Post
Presumably not working in a professional capacity then. Windows event logs (server and desktop O/S) can be a surprisingly useful, and often overlooked, source of information.

(Should I stop feeding the trolls now?)
In the context of lock-ups, Tim, please try to keep up Stopping feeding the trolls now. Perhaps a mod might be kind enough to lock this one out?
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  #165  
Old 31st May 2018
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Re: EM1 MKII Lock Up

If it doesn't calm down a bit we will have to. The thread should return to objective evidence and discussions on such if people want it to stay open

When posting please remember we aim to be a family friendly forum

Regards

Andy
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