Trading on the e-group forum

[Ian]

I just wanted to inform everyone that after some discussion among the mods in response to some private and public feedback from members we will shortly be revising the forum rules in order to refocus the forum on what it was intended for; involved activity including discussion and image sharing and helping and informing each other. Unfortunately, our membership has attracted people who are only interested in doing business via the classified ads section here.

The rule changes are aimed at preventing members from using the forum primarily for trading (buying/selling or swaps). We also want to deal with the problem of members finding that something they sold recently being re-sold here on the forum for a profit.

The For Sale and Wanted section of our forum will continue to be a valuable and useful resource for members, but we want to make it clear that if you are almost exclusively using our site for trading, you will no longer be welcome here.

Ian

[David M]

I add the traders to my ignore list so I don't see their posts. I seem to be adding more these days.

[Homer Simpson]

Chaps (mods & Ian)

Do you think you might be over reacting?
I’ve been a forum member for quite a few years. I rarely log in but browse maybe twice a day. I don’t post photos as I have not got around to bothering to find out how. I like this forum because it’s so friendly and moderated so nicely.
I only buy second hand now and virtually all from forum members. I have made some good friends both digitally and in real life from the forum, so long may the current culture rule.

I nearly joined in the ruckus, last week, as I thought people were unfairly ganging up on that particular seller. Basically the only person who should have felt aggrieved was the original seller and he came on to state he was not concerned. Beyond that it was no one else’s business.
In the last year someone joined and was trying to buy kit – people were offering stuff at decent prices but he dismissed them as too much and pleaded poverty. I think some took pity and he acquired kit at below the market value. Some months passed and he “upgraded” – was I the only one to notice his change of heart regarding prices when he was a seller? He is now an active member and I would not mind betting if I named him there would be uproar here.
My point is someone might join to buy & sell but end up here as a participating member and that we all might want to participate in a different way, so lets maintain the tolerance I think this site should be justly proud of.

[timphoto1]

I have mostly bought and sold one here but have been a member for a long time and made some other posts here too. It seems to be a bit of an over reaction . Sure someone got a great deal decided not to keep the camera and then listed it at a higher price than he bought it. No big deal really that seller could have put it on ebay and made the same money even with ebay fees taken off. I have stuff listed here right now and on ebay but its a much lower price here and fairly hard to find too so surely thats a potential benefit to members.. If people buy and sell at a price they are both happy with then everyone should be happy. I once bought a lens off ebay for £12 and sold it for £150 back on ebay the next week! I am hoping to post in other sections over the coming months but life is very busy for me at the moment . I agree the trading should only be a small part of the site and it is. I buy / use / swap / trade a lot of Olympus gear sometimes I make some money sometimes I lose money I dont think thats a bad thing though!
Regards
Tim

[StephenL]

With respect, Homer, the mods get to see the bigger picture, including statistics and privileged info from other members.

It's always been a case of Caveat Emptor, but we try our best to ensure fairness amongst all.

[Zuiko]

It's not an over-reaction because this is not the result of just one transaction or one seller. It's a trend that has been escalating for several years, during which time there have been a number of traders making multiple transactions and we have taken action against some of these following complaints from other members. It has been a subject of ongoing debate amongst the admin and mod team and, far from over-reacting, we have been remarkably tolerent for the very reason that this is a friendly forum and we don't wish to appear heavy handed. However, with the For Sale board being increasingly used in a manner that was not envisaged or intended when it was established, we reluctantly feel it is time to re-establish the principles on which it is based.

[Ulfric M Douglas]

Originally Posted by Homer Simpson

I nearly joined in the ruckus, last week, as I thought people were unfairly ganging up on that particular seller. Basically the only person who should have felt aggrieved was the original seller and he came on to state he was not concerned. Beyond that it was no one else’s business.
In the last year someone joined and was trying to buy kit – people were offering stuff at decent prices but he dismissed them as too much and pleaded poverty. I think some took pity and he acquired kit at below the market value. Some months passed and he “upgraded” – was I the only one to notice his change of heart regarding prices when he was a seller? He is now an active member and I would not mind betting if I named him there would be uproar here.
My point is someone might join to buy & sell but end up here as a participating member and that we all might want to participate in a different way, so lets maintain the tolerance I think this site should be justly proud of.

I'm the guilty curmudgeon (not the seller, the original ganger), but I tried to comment gently and even PM'd the forum about whether I was even allowed to point things out.
I got no reply from Ian on that, but really didn't want to overstep any rules.
I'm sorry if my comments have caused harm, but happy if the forum remains almost non-commercial as a result.
I'm always one for a bargain, but also fairness and honour.
I also think your post was great and totally agree with you on all points.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Ulfric M Douglas

I'm the guilty curmudgeon (not the seller, the original ganger), but I tried to comment gently and even PM'd the forum about whether I was even allowed to point things out.
I got no reply from Ian on that, but really didn't want to overstep any rules.
I'm sorry if my comments have caused harm, but happy if the forum remains almost non-commercial as a result.
I'm always one for a bargain, but also fairness and honour.
I also think your post was great and totally agree with you on all points.

I'm very sorry you didn't get a response; actually I don't remember seeing your communication so I can only apologise.

Ian

[DekHog]

Good on you, Ian, and not before time I say, having been somewhat vocal on the subject myself over the years....

[Ian]

This clarification of policy is likely to only affect a very small number of people negatively, but be positive for the vast majority of us.

Ian

[David Morison]

I regard this forum as a community of friends and as such don't see it as a market place, although I have bought one item from another member. So I wholeheartedly support Ian and the moderators in this move - part of a process of evolution that is a must for any forum to remain top of the league.

David

[Ross the fiddler]

I wish I was over there (in the UK as there is no forum for Olympus users here with the privileges you enjoy on this great forum) to be able to share in the experience of being able to pass on something I have that I don't need or use any more & know that it has gone to another member & hopefully brought them pleasure (or to buy something from another member), but I would be miffed if someone bought solely to buy & then to try & make a profit on it to someone else. I see this forum as a group of friends where we can help each other in a number of ways (including with buying & selling to each other) but I see no place for profiteers here, so thanks Ian.

I'm not sure I would want to be there in the floods though.

I'm glad that you are not going to stop all sales as it is a valuable service to members. I admit that recently I have been selling several items as I have changed system, though it's not exactly a profit making exercise, more a generous subsidy to other Olympus users

It's quite interesting to compare the approach on other forums. Leica User Forum charge a modest sum (€5) per ad. Talk Photography limit the number of adverts you can have and insist that all negotiation are within the forum thread so other members can see what offers are made, silly (and you do get them!) or otherwise and the final price.

Generally I have found both buying and selling through the forum much more pleasant than using ebay and it would be a shame if you eventually find you have to stop the practice.

[sapper]

Must say that the first forum I turn to is the for sale/wanted one, next is the Lounge.
I have bought and sold, at a profit on one occasion and would hate to see that part of the site go.
I do accept that us ordinary mortals, (members, not mods) do not see the whole picture, but would say, let the butter (Butter?) beware. If someone wants to pay above the odds, so be it.

[Ian]

To clarify, the change in policy is to target people who are only using the site for opportunistic trading. These are a small number of people whose posting history is virtually all to do with buying and selling/swapping gear.

If you are a normal member who uses the site for various involved activities or even if you are not a frequent poster but browse the site instead, as long as you are not primarily using the site for trading then you will not be affected.

Of course there are going to be times when you get a profit when re-selling an item previously bought from another member. My advice is that you should let the previous owner know as a courtesy but in terms of the rule change we ask that you don't re-sell here on the e-group an item bought from another member for a profit until three months after you originally purchased it. There is of course nothing stopping you from selling it elsewhere.

If there are extenuating circumstances then please get in touch with the original owner and/or us and if we are all agreed then all the necessary courtesies will have been made and you can go ahead and sell an item for a profit inside of 3 months.

We will see how the changes go and adjustments if necessary.

Ian