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Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II The second Micro Four Thirds camera that offers phase detect focusing so you can use Four Thirds DSLR lenses normally as well a Micro Four Thirds lenses.

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  #16  
Old 30th December 2018
Stuart444 Stuart444 is offline
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

Hi Ulfric,
Thanks for your ideas, they are interesting, ansd sort of work for this camera. I mentioned in my original post that I'd tried Art (set to Dramatic tone II) and RAW and found extra files. More on that later, let's try your idea.

If I set it to Art Bracket (mono only selected) then when I playback slot 1 I find what appears to be 2 files, 1 colour (natural), and 1 mono. In the info report, it says the colour one is "LSF + RAW"), whereas the mono one is just LSF. When I playback slot 2, again is seems to have 2 files, one colour (natural) and one mono, both described as LSF.
If I put the cards into my computer I find, from slot 1, 3 files - a jpg and a RAW appearing in colour, and a jpg appearing in mono. The mono has a file name one larger than the other two. From slot 2, my card has 2 files, both jpgs, on colour, one mono, with the same file names as those in slot 1 - in fact they are identical files as far as I can see. Why it has stored copies of the jpgs in slot 1 with the RAW, I don't know. From a practical point of view, when I start playback, slot 1 shows a mono and slot 2 also shows a mono. So it still doesn't do quite what I'd wanted, and all the extra files is not helping workflow with having to delete unwanted ones, etc.
Going back to look at Art, set not to bracket but to Dramatic2 / normal mono, I get the same unhepful product. Slot 1 has a jpg and a RAW, but it only shows me the mono in playback saying it is "LSF+RAW" again, and I can't see the RAW in the camera. In slot 2 it has the mono jpg. So I cannot see the RAW in colour iin the camera. On examining the cards in the computer, the RAW is there shown in colour which is good, and with a mono jpg in both cards. So your method of art bracketting with a colour and a mono selected gives me what I wanted in terms of being able to see both colour and mono in the camera, but the trouble we're getting to achieve the result seems too high to me.

Never mind, what seemed like a very simple idea has turned out to be an interesting exercise in finding out what the camera can do; pity it's not what I want! I'm just going to stick with the camera in "mono" knowling that my RAW file is still unchanged and I can process that to mono as usual.
Many thanks,
Stuart
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  #17  
Old 31st December 2018
kbouk kbouk is offline
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

Let me help with some notes. You can separate (see the manual) RAW on slot 1 and jpeg on slot 2 when you shot RAW + JPEG. If you shot with art mode, or hires or something else than normal shoot then you will find an extra jpeg file on slot 1 from these modes with raw. This is unfortunately the behavior of EM1.2 as far I know.

If you want to look on a default slot with camera preview button you have to select the preferable slot on camera menu (I have slot 2 by default to see the jpegs). If you want to change that on the fly you keep the preview button for 1-2 sec press and roll one of the wheels, then slot 1 or 2 appear on the back lcd or EVF and you can choose to see the raw file on slot 1 or the art jpeg there (if it exists). If you delete the jpeg on slot 2 the raw or art jpeg on slot 1 exists. If you want to delete both raw and art jpeg on slot 1 you can do it by choosing slot 1 as I told you. If you want to delete only the art jpeg on slot 1 and keep the raw you have to dig on cameras menu and find the setting to separate raw and jpeg files on deletion (I don’t the camera now on my hands).

Raw file is raw file on computer , you have to configure your raw editor to separate the preview jpeg thumbnail from raw to see it as it is.
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  #18  
Old 31st December 2018
Stuart444 Stuart444 is offline
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

Thanks, kbouk, yes I've discovered this multi-jpg behaviour, it's odd and not very helpful in my view. The aim of my question was to see if anyone knew of a way to do what I wanted simply and quickly without extra work, but it seems that only a firmware change by Olympus could do it. The other controls all work fine for me.
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Old 1st January 2019
Growltiger Growltiger is offline
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

Having read the above it seems that what you actually need has little to do with the use of the card slots. You simply want a mono jpg immediately and also the raw file which you can do anything with later. You say you want to see it in colour as well to determine its potential, but you have the mono and you have the histogram so you can get a good idea if it is usable and not overexposed. So even just with one card slot you can take RAW+JPG and get what you want. But it is worth getting a good SD card. I don't see why you think there is a deficiency in the camera that needs to be fixed. It is just a matter of how you use it.

It was not clear to me what software you are using to process your raw files as you mention several, and I think you should concentrate on choosing a good option and become familiar with it. That way you can quickly get all sorts of results from the raw file. OV3 does what you need but is very slow. Lightroom Classic, or simply using ACR in Photoshop, are also good options. There are several others such as Affinity, which you mentioned.
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  #20  
Old 1st January 2019
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

Thanks for your comments. I do have good, fast SD cards, but their ability will not affect the camera's ability or lack thereof of doing what I'd hoped to do. Unless someone can point me to how it can do what I was seeking (Raw in slot 1, SFL on card 2, SFL appearing as mono and RAW appearing as colour in playback), then it is a camera deficiency to me; not a big one, I'm not too disappointed as it would be unreasonable to expect it to do absolutely everything. As you say, I can (and used to) store both RAW and jpg in slot 1; had they both appeared in playback in colour and mono respectively, that would have been fine, but to the best of my knowledge the camera only shows the jpg on playback. That's why I had changed to dual independent as I can force it to show me both, but alas the RAW is not shown in colour.

I tried several programs to view the RAW files just to see if one behaved differently to OV3, which they didn't. They all showed the RAW file in mono, which initially made me think the RAW had been altered, but now I know it isn't. I use Affinity for all my RAW conversion and editing.
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  #21  
Old 1st January 2019
Ulfric M Douglas Ulfric M Douglas is offline
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

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Originally Posted by Stuart444 View Post
...
I tried several programs to view the RAW files just to see if one behaved differently to OV3, which they didn't. They all showed the RAW file in mono, which initially made me think the RAW had been altered, but now I know it isn't. I use Affinity for all my RAW conversion and editing.
I seem to remember there is at least one RAW processor which defaults to "no jpeg settings", maybe it was a DPReview thread somewhere.
I'll try to recall...

but meanwhile you should dig into your preferred RAW processor and see if there is a setting to tell it to not apply the jpeg settings to your RAw previews ...

Edit : Faststone can do it. Settings, settings, RAW :choose actual size and untick "use camera whitebalance". I love Fastsone.
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  #22  
Old 1st January 2019
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

Hi Ulfic,
I use Serif Affinity Photo for RAW processing and editing, and it opens the RAW files normally, in colour. It doesn't have a previewer or catalogue, and that's why I use XnViewMP for browsing. It shows my RAW files in colour alongside the mono jpg, but I see now that Fastone Image Viewer does that as well. I can't remember now why I preferred XnView over FIV a couple of years or so ago when I started using Affinity, I tried several image viewers to choose between them. But I agree FIV is good, it offers some editing features and effects as well. Indeed I recommend it to beginners coming into our Camera Club before they splash out on a paid-for editor like Affinity and Lightroom, and I've put several programs these included on our club loan computer to help them compare these programs. I've used Fastone Photo Resizer for ages for batch resizing, it's excellent for that. FIV and XnView look very similar in browse mode, but XnView doesn't offer any editing facilities.
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Old 1st January 2019
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

Its pretty easy using OV3 to bulk convert the "tag" on all the RAW files in one directory from monotone to natural (or vivid) via the "Menu" (top right) -> Professional -> Open RAW development Window; just select all the files and make the change in the RAW1 tab. However it will take an age to actually do it and you will then see all the "RAW" files in colour in the main part of OV3.
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  #24  
Old 1st January 2019
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

OK, I see now. Yes, it is a bit slow. I haven't used OV3 much, just for importing really as it does a better job than XnViewMP. That drop-down "Menu" is easy to miss!
Thanks!
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Old 2nd January 2019
Growltiger Growltiger is offline
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

I suppose the ideal for you would be the ability to assign a new toggle function to a button. On pressing the button it would toggle between displaying a completely standard colour rendering of the raw file, and the rendered version it makes now, using all the settings. Not only would it allow you to toggle between mono and standard colour, it would allow users to toggle between vivid (or any other settings) and standard. Maybe you should suggest this to Olympus.
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  #26  
Old 2nd January 2019
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

That's an even better idea!
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Old 2nd January 2019
Ulfric M Douglas Ulfric M Douglas is offline
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart444 View Post
... I've used Fastone Photo Resizer for ages for batch resizing, it's excellent for that. FIV and XnView look very similar in browse mode, but XnView doesn't offer any editing facilities.
Yes I batch resize/rename using Faststone too, very good with no awkward bit,
but I really use it for jpeg browsing because it has no hesitation (on, working, instantly) and a superbly easy crop function.
I don't think it really suits Lightroom devotees as it doesn't 'organise' stuff itself.
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Old 3rd January 2019
Stuart444 Stuart444 is offline
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

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Originally Posted by Growltiger View Post
I suppose the ideal for you would be the ability to assign a new toggle function to a button. On pressing the button it would toggle between displaying a completely standard colour rendering of the raw file, and the rendered version it makes now, using all the settings. Not only would it allow you to toggle between mono and standard colour, it would allow users to toggle between vivid (or any other settings) and standard. Maybe you should suggest this to Olympus.

I suggested this (together with the underlying facility to choose how RAWs are viewed in the camera) and got a positive response. I mean, they said they'd pass it on to the developers, not that they'd definitely do it! But here's hoping.
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  #29  
Old 3rd January 2019
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

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Originally Posted by Ulfric M Douglas View Post
Yes I batch resize/rename using Faststone too, very good with no awkward bit,
but I really use it for jpeg browsing because it has no hesitation (on, working, instantly) and a superbly easy crop function.
I don't think it really suits Lightroom devotees as it doesn't 'organise' stuff itself.

One of my gripes with Photoshop Elements (the first editing program I tried when starting digital photography) and Lightroom is the way it works in terms of forming a catalogue, and then woe betide you if you move files other than through that program. Then there was its inability to view Olympus RAW files (I had PSE11) and the extortionate cost of upgrading to PSE12 or 13 (90% of the cost of a fresh purchase) which made me turn to Affinity when it became available. Indeed I bought a Mac specially for Affinity as originally it was Mac only, although I sold it again when Affinity for Windows came out as I didn't really like iOS. So Affinity, FIV, XnViewMP etc are great, they are pretty much intolerant of what I do with my files. Affinity "loses" recent files of course if you move them outside Affinity, but that's hardly a problem.



I'll give FIV a better run now. Thinking back, I think I preferred XnViewMP as I could customise the star ratings given to photos, and at the time I thought that would help me organise my photo libraries, but in practice I found it not helping me so I stopped using the stars etc but continued using the program. So maybe FIV will be better for me now.


As an aside, I wonder what will happen on my Photo Club's computer. We recently bought a new computer, and the old one has been "recycled" as a loan computer, mainly for beginners, to let them see what various softwares are like before buying. So I have PSE11 and Lightroom 5 on that computer at the same time. I've put lots of photos on it too from club members' previous competition entries (I am the club's Competition Secretary), and built the catalogues in both softwares. So now I'm wondering, how will PSE react if people re-organise or add more files via LR, and vice versa? It will be interesting. Sorry, that's got nothing to do with micro 4/3!
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Old 3rd January 2019
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Re: Trying to save RAW colour and mono jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulfric M Douglas View Post

Edit : Faststone can do it. Settings, settings, RAW :choose actual size and untick "use camera whitebalance". I love Fastsone.
Just downloaded Faststone, it really works very well so far. Thanks for the tip.

The only reason I save photos as RAW + Jpeg is that the Wifi only downloads the Jpeg, which is understandable...Otherwise I would just save RAW..
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