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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #16  
Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Yes, as Ian pointed out, diffraction is your enemy at f8 on a u4/3 sensor. (It begs the question why the manufacturer provides smaller apertures knowing they're virtually unusable.)
I disagree that smaller apertures are unusable. Sometimes limiting exposure is an acceptable cost of some sharpness. It's also critical when you need adequate depth of field. And as we are learning from this thread, the size of the end result may not reveal the loss in resolution.

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  #17  
Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

I know we don't want this to descend into a slanging match - but really it's a useless thread. Comparisons across formats are always tricky, even when the tester uses careful process and posts their results for us all to see.

In this case we have someone who has created several similar threads, all containing outrageous statements with no real evidence or structured argument to defend them. I don't know why he's a member here or why he has a u43 system given the opinions expressed.

IMHO, close the thread now. Nothing of value will come from it.
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  #18  
Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
I know we don't want this to descend into a slanging match - but really it's a useless thread. Comparisons across formats are always tricky, even when the tester uses careful process and posts their results for us all to see.

In this case we have someone who has created several similar threads, all containing outrageous statements with no real evidence or structured argument to defend them. I don't know why he's a member here or why he has a u43 system given the opinions expressed.

IMHO, close the thread now. Nothing of value will come from it.
Paul, I understand where you are coming from but I'm not really in favour of closing threads. I have deleted threads in the past but closing a thread simply stifles things in my view. I feel the best thing is - if you don't like what is being said in a thread, then either make a considered contribution or leave it alone. I do respect your view assuming that you don't agree with this policy.
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  #19  
Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Paul, I understand where you are coming from but I'm not really in favour of closing threads. I have deleted threads in the past but closing a thread simply stifles things in my view. I feel the best thing is - if you don't like what is being said in a thread, then either make a considered contribution or leave it alone. I do respect your view assuming that you don't agree with this policy.
I do agree actually Ian and I've deliberately not responded to the specifics of the "results". I guess the best approach is to keep my own counsel! I do like this forum though and would hate to see it go the way of dpreview and such like.
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Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

In an effort to show a fair comparison between a D4 image and an E-M1 mk1 image, see if you can figure which is which. That said, I really don't mind which you prefer as both clients were more than happy with their images. One image was for the bridal brochure of an international hotel group, the other image was for a wedding. And no, I'm not telling you which was for whom.



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  #21  
Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Paul, I understand where you are coming from but I'm not really in favour of closing threads. I have deleted threads in the past but closing a thread simply stifles things in my view. I feel the best thing is - if you don't like what is being said in a thread, then either make a considered contribution or leave it alone. I do respect your view assuming that you don't agree with this policy.
Closing the thread, in my opinion would be a totally futile action as another will surely appear to replace it. We already have 2 threads active with similar topics started by the same member and several previous ones.

The actual threads and resulting discussion by the members are not the problem here. The real problem is the OP's purpose and intentions in posting them. I fully appreciate that Ian and the Admins. have to be seen to apply a measured degree of political correctness in these situations but surely as a Forum funded either wholly or in part by Olympus there comes a time when enough brand assassination is enough.

It only takes a quick look through the various comments and threads made by the OP to come to the conclusion his only purpose in being a member here is to create argument, cause offence and decry the Olympus name.

The real question is, do we need such a member ? The answer can only be decided by the forum Administrators.

John
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Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

Don't let one individual spoil what is a very friendly and useful forum.
It's obvious what they are trying to do, simply wind people up.
Please don't let this forum turn into "dpreview"
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  #23  
Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

People, will you please stop feeding the troll. It only encourages their attention seeking behaviour.
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  #24  
Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
Closing the thread, in my opinion would be a totally futile action as another will surely appear to replace it. We already have 2 threads active with similar topics started by the same member and several previous ones.

The actual threads and resulting discussion by the members are not the problem here. The real problem is the OP's purpose and intentions in posting them. I fully appreciate that Ian and the Admins. have to be seen to apply a measured degree of political correctness in these situations but surely as a Forum funded either wholly or in part by Olympus there comes a time when enough brand assassination is enough.

It only takes a quick look through the various comments and threads made by the OP to come to the conclusion his only purpose in being a member here is to create argument, cause offence and decry the Olympus name.

The real question is, do we need such a member ? The answer can only be decided by the forum Administrators.

John
We are no longer funded by Olympus.

Anyway, I don't feel this is doing bottom line harm to Olympus as the counter-arguments are very convincing.

What we all need to do is calm down and simply deal in carefully considered, respectful, responses based on facts and common sense.

Ian
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Old 16th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sewell View Post
In an effort to show a fair comparison between a D4 image and an E-M1 mk1 images, see if you can figure which is which. That said, I really don't mind which you prefer as both clients were more than happy with their images. One image was for the bridal brochure of an international hotel group, the other image was for a wedding. And no, I'm not telling you which was for whom.



When the images are this good, who cares what was used to produce them.

When shooting food, does the question of the cooking utensils ever get mentioned. Imagine saying to the chefs "that's delicious, you must have a really expensive oven".

I love the detail in the dress. Excellent work.
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Old 17th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

Couldn't agree more Graham, Michael has posted some stunning images.
Hey just realised we have just installed a new oven in our kitchen so hopefully I can look forward to gourmet meals in the future
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Old 17th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

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Couldn't agree more Graham, Michael has posted some stunning images.
Hey just realised we have just installed a new oven in our kitchen so hopefully I can look forward to gourmet meals in the future
We're getting a new oven soon too - really looking forward to it! I'll be pastry peeking and will write up my thoughts.
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Old 17th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
Imagine saying to the chefs "that's delicious, you must have a really expensive oven".
Bert Hardy is reputed to have said just that to the hostess of a dinner party who had complimented his work and said he must have a very good camera .
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Old 17th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

Just to slightly drift away from the main theme of this thread I find the comments Ian and others have made regarding the Diffraction issue very interesting. I have been aware of Diffraction but not really read into it. So I had a search and found this useful and informative site on the subject. Near the bottom is a calculator that gives some indication as the the limits of diffraction for the many camera systems.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...hotography.htm

Steve
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Old 17th June 2017
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Re: Two camera test.

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Originally Posted by Wreckdiver View Post
Just to slightly drift away from the main theme of this thread I find the comments Ian and others have made regarding the Diffraction issue very interesting. I have been aware of Diffraction but not really read into it. So I had a search and found this useful and informative site on the subject. Near the bottom is a calculator that gives some indication as the the limits of diffraction for the many camera systems.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...hotography.htm

Steve
Also remember for a given aperture, diffraction is a function of wavelength. So if you see colour separation when you pixel peep you'll know why.
Have a look at this nice easy to understand explanation: https://physics.stackexchange.com/qu...ct-diffraction
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