Olympus UK E-System User Group
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Looking for improvement This is the e-group critique board. If you post a picture here it will be assumed that you are looking for comprehensive technical feedback - both good and bad, but always respectful. Only post pictures here if you can deal with potentially negative constructive criticism. Anyone is qualified to comment and post feedback, and everyone is encouraged to do so. NB: "Looking for Improvement" is the place to post any pictures you would like advice on improving, no matter how bad you might think they are.

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  #1  
Old 25th October 2017
blu-by-u blu-by-u is offline
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Panning for Motor Sports



Olympus E-M1MarkII with OLYMPUS M.40-150mm @ 57.0 mm
ƒ/6.3, 1/125s, ISO 200







Question, Why is the middle only sharp? At f6.3, I should get enough DOF to get the whole car sharp.
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Old 25th October 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Could be vibration. I met the same issue when photographing the air ambulance - as it went on full power for lift off, you could see the section below the rotor vibrating, yet the ends were sharp.

Also the possibility of the camera 'finding' the middle, and as the shutter operates, the ends are moving in time relative to the point it fixed on. Have you tried focusing on the front? As it is, the front is sharper than the rear.
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Old 25th October 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Quote:
Originally Posted by blu-by-u View Post

Olympus E-M1MarkII with OLYMPUS M.40-150mm @ 57.0 mm
ƒ/6.3, 1/125s, ISO 200

Question, Why is the middle only sharp? At f6.3, I should get enough DOF to get the whole car sharp.
Did you use mechanical shutter - or the electronic ('Silent') shutter?
If you used electronic shutter what you are seeing might be due to the well known "rolling shutter" effect - because the camera takes ~ 1/60 sec to readout all the sensor's pixels.
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Old 25th October 2017
Petrochemist Petrochemist is offline
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Does the E-M1 have a horizontal or vertical shutter (& if horizontal does it go left right or right left)?
If it's a horizontal shutter then your panning at either end of the shot might not have been quite as good as that in the middle. The blur doesn't look OOF to me & looks significantly worse at the back. Are you remembering to follow through sufficiently?

Road bumps can give vibrations at one end of the car while the other end & center remain sharp - but I'd expect that to be vertical movement which doesn't seem to be the case here.
I've had similar cases with my Pentax DSLR where just the back of the car showed blur, but closer inspection showed it to be nearly all vertical movement (I got many shots like this at the same spot). I've eventually pinned it down to road bumps after some comments from the loud speakers!
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Old 25th October 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Couldn't it just be the extra vibration of the flimsy bodywork around the engine area? plus that wing must be getting quite a buffeting from the airflow? I don't know really just a few thoughts.
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Old 25th October 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

This is quite normal with panning shots at slow shutter speeds. It is caused by the difference in motion RELATIVE TO YOU of the front, middle and back of the car. You will be panning by rotating about a spot. The line of ‘frozen motion’ is therefore described by an arc centred on your rotation point.

The car, however, is travelling (more or less) in a straight line. The line of he car’s motion intersects with your ‘frozen motion’ arc at a tangent. In this case, the middle of the car is at the tangent and is frozen. The front and rear of the car are not on the arc and so they are not frozen. Given that you are using a very short focal length, the car must be quite close to you. Thus, the deviation of the front an rear of the cars from the ideal arc is significant.

Consider what happens when you pan with the car. When it is far away, you swing slowly. As it approaches, you swing more quickly. You swing fastest when the car is closest to you. As it moves away, you have to slow your swing down again. This is an analogous situation. Because the front, middle and back of the car are at a different distance to you, they require a different swing rate to be frozen. They can’t all be sharp at the same time unless the car is driving in a circle with you at the centre.

When you take pictures of cars going around corners, you will see these effects magnified as the relative motions of front, middle and rear become more pronounced because the car will be moving in an arc that deviates from the panning arc more significantly.

By the way, I would consider your shot to be ‘perfectly sharp’. I never expect a shot of a moving car that is taken with a shutter speed that shows a sense of motion to be sharp everywhere. It just needs to be sharp in the important areas.

I should add that vibrations as mentioned by others will also play a part in making some parts blurred.

Mark
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Old 26th October 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_R2 View Post
This is quite normal with panning shots at slow shutter speeds. It is caused by the difference in motion RELATIVE TO YOU of the front, middle and back of the car. You will be panning by rotating about a spot. The line of ‘frozen motion’ is therefore described by an arc centred on your rotation point.

The car, however, is travelling (more or less) in a straight line. The line of he car’s motion intersects with your ‘frozen motion’ arc at a tangent. In this case, the middle of the car is at the tangent and is frozen. The front and rear of the car are not on the arc and so they are not frozen. Given that you are using a very short focal length, the car must be quite close to you. Thus, the deviation of the front an rear of the cars from the ideal arc is significant.

Consider what happens when you pan with the car. When it is far away, you swing slowly. As it approaches, you swing more quickly. You swing fastest when the car is closest to you. As it moves away, you have to slow your swing down again. This is an analogous situation. Because the front, middle and back of the car are at a different distance to you, they require a different swing rate to be frozen. They can’t all be sharp at the same time unless the car is driving in a circle with you at the centre.

When you take pictures of cars going around corners, you will see these effects magnified as the relative motions of front, middle and rear become more pronounced because the car will be moving in an arc that deviates from the panning arc more significantly.

By the way, I would consider your shot to be ‘perfectly sharp’. I never expect a shot of a moving car that is taken with a shutter speed that shows a sense of motion to be sharp everywhere. It just needs to be sharp in the important areas.

I should add that vibrations as mentioned by others will also play a part in making some parts blurred.

Mark
I had several goes at writing what you've just said and couldn't make it clear when read so gave up!

Well written explanation!
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Old 26th October 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Ditto - thanks and well done Mark for putting into words the vague thoughts I was having.

John
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Old 26th October 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Excellent explanation Mark, nice one.
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Old 26th October 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Wow. Thank you guys for those kind words. I'm delighted to contribute usefully to this wonderful forum.

Mark
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Old 26th October 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Excellent explanation. Also it is easy to rotate the camera around the lens axis as you pan which can deliver a similar result.

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Old 27th October 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyver View Post
Did you use mechanical shutter - or the electronic ('Silent') shutter?
If you used electronic shutter what you are seeing might be due to the well known "rolling shutter" effect - because the camera takes ~ 1/60 sec to readout all the sensor's pixels.
Silent shutter (0s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrochemist View Post
Does the E-M1 have a horizontal or vertical shutter (& if horizontal does it go left right or right left)?....
Sorry, I really don't know that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phill D View Post
Couldn't it just be the extra vibration of the flimsy bodywork around the engine area? plus that wing must be getting quite a buffeting from the airflow? I don't know really just a few thoughts.
Very high possibility as those clip on bodies are so light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_R2 View Post
This is quite normal with panning shots at slow shutter speeds. It is caused by the difference in motion RELATIVE TO YOU of the front, middle and back of the car. You will be panning by rotating about a spot. The line of ‘frozen motion’ is therefore described by an arc centred on your rotation point.

The car, however, is travelling (more or less) in a straight line. The line of he car’s motion intersects with your ‘frozen motion’ arc at a tangent. In this case, the middle of the car is at the tangent and is frozen. The front and rear of the car are not on the arc and so they are not frozen. Given that you are using a very short focal length, the car must be quite close to you. Thus, the deviation of the front an rear of the cars from the ideal arc is significant.

Consider what happens when you pan with the car. When it is far away, you swing slowly. As it approaches, you swing more quickly. You swing fastest when the car is closest to you. As it moves away, you have to slow your swing down again. This is an analogous situation. Because the front, middle and back of the car are at a different distance to you, they require a different swing rate to be frozen. They can’t all be sharp at the same time unless the car is driving in a circle with you at the centre.

When you take pictures of cars going around corners, you will see these effects magnified as the relative motions of front, middle and rear become more pronounced because the car will be moving in an arc that deviates from the panning arc more significantly.

By the way, I would consider your shot to be ‘perfectly sharp’. I never expect a shot of a moving car that is taken with a shutter speed that shows a sense of motion to be sharp everywhere. It just needs to be sharp in the important areas.

I should add that vibrations as mentioned by others will also play a part in making some parts blurred.

Mark
I really like that explination.. So I am ok with my shots
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Old 2nd November 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

You should be, they are great action shots..........
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Old 4th November 2017
blu-by-u blu-by-u is offline
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

Had another go at the recent MotoGP @ Sepang

Did not fair any better


Olympus E-M1MarkII, OLYMPUS M.14-150mm @150mm, F4.0-5.6 II, ƒ/11.0, 1/125s, ISO 200

Had to do with the 14-150 mk2 as a fellow photographer was using the 40-150.
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Old 4th November 2017
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Re: Panning for Motor Sports

That looks pretty good to me. One suggestion generally: better to get shots nearer to head-on if you can. Then you only really have to worry about getting the front bit really sharp, and they also tend to look more dramatic.
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