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Olympus Pen-F The first Pen to integrate an electronic viewfinder

View Poll Results: Which photo is the OOC JPEG?
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  #16  
Old 5th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
If I was going to attempt that I might set the camera to manual and rely upon my ancient (but still perfectly working) Weston Master II. I just have to remember that Weston speeds are slightly faster than modern ISO equivalents.
I recommend the Sekonic 758. The second most important photographic tool after the camera. The benefit of the 758 over other lightmeters: you can calibrate the 758 to the camera, several different cameras in fact each with their own response. Brilliant!
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  #17  
Old 6th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

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I recommend the Sekonic 758. The second most important photographic tool after the camera. The benefit of the 758 over other lightmeters: you can calibrate the 758 to the camera, several different cameras in fact each with their own response. Brilliant!
By far the most accurate meter I have ever owned was the Pentax digital spot meter, a truly remarkable piece of kit.
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Old 6th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

I had a Minolta spot meter which was wonderful until it died and Minolta refused to repair it saying the main circuit board was cracked. Not quite sure how that could have happened! I replaced it with a Sekonic L-508 which better in some respects but not as intuitive to use. It's for sale if anyone's interested as I've hardly used it.

I can't tell the difference between those two pics I'm afraid .
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Old 6th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

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By far the most accurate meter I have ever owned was the Pentax digital spot meter, a truly remarkable piece of kit.
I suspect many of the 'new' school mirrorless photographers haven't got a clue what we're talking about. The 'new' way to shoot is to allow the camera to make the exposure decisions (God knows how you ever learn about light and exposure using this technique), fire off a couple of hundred (electronic shutter of course), review by chimping, adjust using some mysterious esoteric button sequences and repeat until the battery runs dry. Then there's always HDR if it's too difficult, followed a generous dollop of post processing.
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Old 6th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
I suspect many of the 'new' school mirrorless photographers haven't got a clue what we're talking about. The 'new' way to shoot is to allow the camera to make the exposure decisions (God knows how you ever learn about light and exposure using this technique), fire off a couple of hundred (electronic shutter of course), review by chimping, adjust using some mysterious esoteric button sequences and repeat until the battery runs dry. Then there's always HDR if it's too difficult, followed a generous dollop of post processing.
Steve - I need to push back on this. Not only are separate light meters a throwback to a day before technology had figured out how the camera can do it better, but the truth is that metering can be complex and a simple light reading from any meter falls a long way short of guaranteeing consistent results.

IMHO, metering off the sensor using highlight and shadow indicators and with an easy to reach exposure compensation dial is pretty close to nirvana. That only comes from using a modern mirrorless camera. So, quite the opposite of mirrorless camera users being clueless, in my view they're the most informed!
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Old 7th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

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...my ancient (but still perfectly working) Weston Master II. I just have to remember that Weston speeds are slightly faster than modern ISO equivalents.
Yes, Iíve got my Dadís Master IV from the early 1960s, which still works well. I must get hold of an invercone for it some time.

Nice resource: http://www.westonmeter.org.uk/Chronology.html
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Old 7th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

[QUOTE=pdk42;439199...
IMHO, metering off the sensor using highlight and shadow indicators and with an easy to reach exposure compensation dial is pretty close to nirvana. That only comes from using a modern mirrorless camera.[/QUOTE]

Errrrrrmmmm...

Remember the OM-2?

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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

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Errrrrrmmmm...

Remember the OM-2?

That was clever stuff in its day, but of course it was just measuring reflected light of the film - not the film's response to the light, which is what, in effect, mirrorless cameras do.
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  #24  
Old 7th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

Knowledge of the zone system is key and where to place certain tones. All lightmeters are grey meters calibrated for 18% reflectance, so having taken a reading of the shadows it's then time to decide where to place them, zone I, II or possibly III (I generally go for III to lift off the toe of the curve and to preserve detail). In the modern digital world the live scene much like a camcorder is presented on a screen and the photographer turns a compensation dial to shift the histogram. In my opinion this is not a good way to learn about the zone system and placement of the tones. It is my endeavour to be able to read the light without a lightmeter and to compensate for zonal placement to my choice, which is about pre conceiving the finished output.
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Old 7th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Knowledge of the zone system is key and where to place certain tones. All lightmeters are grey meters calibrated for 18% reflectance, so having taken a reading of the shadows it's then time to decide where to place them, zone I, II or possibly III (I generally go for III to lift off the toe of the curve and to preserve detail). In the modern digital world the live scene much like a camcorder is presented on a screen and the photographer turns a compensation dial to shift the histogram. In my opinion this is not a good way to learn about the zone system and placement of the tones. It is my endeavour to be able to read the light without a lightmeter and to compensate for zonal placement to my choice, which is about pre conceiving the finished output.
So long as you don't blow the highlights and the shadows don't go below the noise level then you can make digital final output fit into any zone you like by using post processing in Lightroom or such like. That's one of the big advantages of digital workflow and the result is that the technical quality of photographic output has exploded since the dawn of digital. Of course there are downsides of digital and nothing it provides adds one iota to the artistic element. But that's always been the case. Ansel Adams with his zone system would have never achieved the status he did if he took cr@p pictures! Of course, his zone system was designed to fit the characteristics of the medium of his day - film.

Only when the DR of the scene exceeds the DR of the sensor does exposure decision matter at capture time. My solution to that is to use the 60fps electronic shutter on the E-M1ii and take a 5 or 7 frame burst over 5 EVs and then stack later. That way I can achieve DR getting close to what film can do.

The only thing I ask of the camera's meter is that it shows me where highlights are being blown and where shadows sink below the noise threshold. The blinkies on Oly cameras get close to that. It's not perfect since it's showing me a "jpeg" rendering and it's overly conservative much of the time - but now I know that I can compensate. Once I've captured the raw that fits into the sensor's limitations I can then make the final output anything I need it to be.

The shot below illustrates this perfectly. It was a very bright day and the scene had a lot of bright highlights and deep shadows. I would normally have shot a bracketed sequence but I took the shot from a bridge on The High Line - an elevated walkway on an old railway line - and there were others about so I had little time to set it up properly. So, I just looked at the blinkies and dialled down the exp comp until it was showing only slight overexposure on limited parts of the scene. Later in LR, I spent a little while on the tone curve to life the shadows and tone down the highlights and bring out the mid tones. It's probably not perfect but in the end I was happy with the final result. I contend that using a separate light meter (or even a DSLR with centre-weighted metering) would probably have got it wrong.


Just a Street in NYC by Paul Kaye, on Flickr
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Old 7th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

Adams was restricted to the materials available to him at the time, and the point of the zone system was to fit the contrast range of the negative to that of the paper. Had modern multigrade papers been available to him then his life (and ours) would have been easier!
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  #27  
Old 7th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
I suspect many of the 'new' school mirrorless photographers haven't got a clue what we're talking about. The 'new' way to shoot is to allow the camera to make the exposure decisions (God knows how you ever learn about light and exposure using this technique), fire off a couple of hundred (electronic shutter of course), review by chimping, adjust using some mysterious esoteric button sequences and repeat until the battery runs dry. Then there's always HDR if it's too difficult, followed a generous dollop of post processing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh
Knowledge of the zone system is key and where to place certain tones. All lightmeters are grey meters calibrated for 18% reflectance, so having taken a reading of the shadows it's then time to decide where to place them, zone I, II or possibly III (I generally go for III to lift off the toe of the curve and to preserve detail). In the modern digital world the live scene much like a camcorder is presented on a screen and the photographer turns a compensation dial to shift the histogram. In my opinion this is not a good way to learn about the zone system and placement of the tones. It is my endeavour to be able to read the light without a lightmeter and to compensate for zonal placement to my choice, which is about pre conceiving the finished output.
Maybe that's because the "new" school mirrorless photographers simply enjoy taking photos and using the equipment. If I purchased a brand new BMW car I doubt very much if I'd yearn for the days when I had to stick a crank into the front and give several heavy turns every time I wanted to start the engine. Photography from a hobbyists point of view is supposed to be about fun and enjoyment not an obsessive new way of life.

John
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  #28  
Old 7th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

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Adams was restricted to the materials available to him at the time, and the point of the zone system was to fit the contrast range of the negative to that of the paper. Had modern multigrade papers been available to him then his life (and ours) would have been easier!
Applicable if shooting sheet film or a Hassy with film backs. Not really practical for 35mm or medium format roll.

For film work I mainly use 35mm B&W, exposing for the shadows allowing the highlights to fall. Very rare have I had blown highlights. My 35mm digital offers centre weighted reflected metering off the shutter blades. With digital, like reversal, it's always important to expose for the highlights.
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Old 7th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

No, the Zone System is not really practical for roll film as in its strictest sense it involves adjusting exposure and development for each individual image. That's simple enough with sheet film. Digital offers a similar flexibility. It's vital to expose for the shadows when using negative films, and for highlights with reversal film and digital as you say. Negative films have a wide range so it's rare to get completely blown highlights but it can often be a challenge to get that highlight detail onto paper.

Few people however extend those principles when making a b&w print in the darkroom. Then it's important to expose for the highlights. If the shadows on the print are too light then increase the paper contrast, and vice versa. In the case of "bullet-proof" highlights, pre-flashing the paper can often help.
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Old 7th February 2018
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Re: Pen-F Mono mode - a little game!

With my modified zone system I can look at a scene and decide where I want to place the shadows, take a reflected spot reading and compensate for 18% by adjusting aperture or time, -1, -2 stops etc.
Interestingly Ralph Gibson exposed for the highlights reflecting his own vision, his point of departure.

I also use point and shoot digital cameras which are great for those grab shots. Expose then worry what you'll do with the raw file in PP. I don't think I could bother with HDR, or indeed whether I like the result. Most look rather false, and not in tune with our vision system.
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