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  #16  
Old 26th April 2019
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Re: An army of clones

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I'm amazed how anyone can teach B&W without discussing and demonstrating the effects of colour filters, then kicking the students out to practice and present the results.
I think this demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of photography and how colour works which I find disappointing in a university lecturer.
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Old 26th April 2019
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Re: An army of clones

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Hmmm. I think fifteen years of using digital has probably changed our photographic tastes so that most people now prefer the clinical detail and sharpness of digital, and the lack of film grain, although it obviously depends on the genre of photography.
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I am not actually too sure how this works though. Is it the extreme resolution, crystal clarity and sharpness of digital that people crave, the eye popping (and sometimes unrealistic colours), the binary contrast (with little shadow detail), the 'in your face' nature of digital images or something else?
I'm not sure either, but I can certainly identify a digital image without a second glance. The results look totally false, too sharp, too much of everything - resulting in visual overload. I would say, however, the digital eye-popping output can be toned down by an appropriate choice of lens; yes you guessed it, by using an old school lens design with minimal or non-existent coatings on the objective (cinematographers are known to remove lens coatings to achieve the look they're after).
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Old 26th April 2019
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Re: An army of clones

Just by chance, this came to light:

https://peterdbarton.com/2016/10/25/...mpression=true

As the author puts it, the modern hyper doesn't possess that certain ‘Je ne sais quoi’.
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Old 26th April 2019
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Re: An army of clones

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Just by chance, this came to light:

https://peterdbarton.com/2016/10/25/...mpression=true

As the author puts it, the modern hyper doesn't possess that certain Je ne sais quoi.
Yes I know what you mean. A certain indefinable 'something' that provides a little magic and mystery rather than a crystal clear 'in your face' view. This is rather like a glimpse of a wonderful view from a train window which might actually be disappointing if the train stopped for a while.

I sometimes think we see and know too much today, (or we think we do), so there is no magic, no mystery and nothing to be learned. We have it all here on a plate in front of us but we have somehow lost our souls in the process.
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Old 26th April 2019
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Re: An army of clones

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Yes I know what you mean. A certain indefinable 'something' that provides a little magic and mystery rather than a crystal clear 'in your face' view. This is rather like a glimpse of a wonderful view from a train window which might actually be disappointing if the train stopped for a while.

I sometimes think we see and know too much today, (or we think we do), so there is no magic, no mystery and nothing to be learned. We have it all here on a plate in front of us but we have somehow lost our souls in the process.
I think you've articulated well the difference I experience viewing output from film v the digital sensor. But I fear that worse is yet to come, inevitably, as digital sensors acquire yet more pixels driven by consumer desire for improvement in camera tech! Sigh!!
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Old 27th April 2019
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Re: An army of clones

Having just looked at Nigel's railway shots taken with the Mamiya, I can appreciate what you're saying here. I agree that there is a certain "look", esp from large format, that film provides that is hard to emulate in digital. However, I contend that "hard" <> "impossible"!

So, I propose an interesting experiment:

- We arrange a meet up. Me with my Oly m43 stuff and Nigel, and/or Steve and/or whoever else can make it, with 35mm and MF film cameras.

- We take shots of the same subject and them head home to process them to our satisfaction.

- We post the images, without Exif, at a large but identical resolution on a simple web server (so no tweaking by Flickr or whatever)

- We do a poll among members asking them to identify which shots are digital and which film, and, which they prefer.

Thoughts?
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Re: An army of clones

There's more than enough space in photography-land for film and digital to co-exist without contest. I use both for different reasons. Digital because it's fast to process and cost effective (once the initial outlay has been forgotten). Film because of the imperfections, especially 1/2 frame 35mm. I like the grain of film, the odd colours, light leak, the missed focus, and I'm even asking myself why should I clean-up negative scans - a bit of dust and the stray fibres can show the authentic nature of the craft. When it comes to film photography I think I could sum it up as 'less is more'.
If you haven't been following the hashtag Polaroidweek or Roidweek, you should. The imperfections can turn the ordinary into something sublime. (I'm toying with the idea of of a 'MiNT' Vintage Polaroid and the impossible project film).
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Re: An army of clones

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Having just looked at Nigel's railway shots taken with the Mamiya, I can appreciate what you're saying here. I agree that there is a certain "look", esp from large format, that film provides that is hard to emulate in digital. However, I contend that "hard" <> "impossible"!

So, I propose an interesting experiment:

- We arrange a meet up. Me with my Oly m43 stuff and Nigel, and/or Steve and/or whoever else can make it, with 35mm and MF film cameras.

- We take shots of the same subject and them head home to process them to our satisfaction.

- We post the images, without Exif, at a large but identical resolution on a simple web server (so no tweaking by Flickr or whatever)

- We do a poll among members asking them to identify which shots are digital and which film, and, which they prefer.

Thoughts?
I really like this idea Paul, but fear it would be impracticable owing to the distances involved.

Ideally we would produce wet prints from the negatives and digital prints from the processed ORF files but viewing would be difficult.

However, what I would like to do is to take some photographs of the same subject using 43 (either my OM-D E-M1 or E-M5) and medium format film. If I get a chance I will also take the same photograph on my OM4Ti.

If I can persuade my son to come along with me we might even be able to compare the output from his Nikon D750.

Comparing the final output on a computer screen is not ideal but it is a start. I just have to think of a suitable subject.
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Re: An army of clones

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I really like this idea Paul, but fear it would be impracticable owing to the distances involved.

Ideally we would produce wet prints from the negatives and digital prints from the processed ORF files but viewing would be difficult.

However, what I would like to do is to take some photographs of the same subject using 43 (either my OM-D E-M1 or E-M5) and medium format film. If I get a chance I will also take the same photograph on my OM4Ti.

If I can persuade my son to come along with me we might even be able to compare the output from his Nikon D750.

Comparing the final output on a computer screen is not ideal but it is a start. I just have to think of a suitable subject.
Well, I have relatives up in the North East (Darlington) and I owe them a visit, so just maybe....
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