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Nostalgia Nexus - early and pre-digital discussion Want to discuss the really early days of digital and even film - here is the place for you.

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  #31  
Old 19th February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Hands up those Digial photographers who 'make' photographs in an iterative manner, shoot, chimp, refine, loop round 'n' times until happy.
Iterative shooting suits some genres pretty well I think Steve. Landscape comes to mind in particular, but then there's architecture, cityscape, astro, studio, still-life and more. Having tools to let you achieve your vision is surely good isn't it?


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Hands up those Analogue photographers who evaluate the scene considering all aspects, framing with regard to received wisdom on composition (remembering the entire negative is the frame, and bugger the rules) exposure DoF and maybe possibly shoot two extra frames allowing for exposure bracketing.
You can do all those things with digital too.


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Also in digital, worrying about blowing highlights, knowing when they've gone they are well and truly gone. Compared to the analogue photographer, exposing for shadows, buggering the highlights knowing the 'S' response will allow for recovery. Knowing also the latitude of film and the (generally) increased DR cf digital.
And with film we can worry about focus accuracy, camera shake, running out of film at the wrong moment, having the wrong ISO installed, ... I contend that digital is much easier - and the proof is the drastic impact it's had on the professional photographer. Most amateurs can now make a decent hash of a photograph.

I rest m'case m'lord!
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  #32  
Old 19th February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

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1) Iterative shooting suits some genres pretty well I think Steve. Landscape comes to mind in particular, but then there's architecture, cityscape, astro, studio, still-life and more. Having tools to let you achieve your vision is surely good isn't it?



2) You can do all those things with digital too.



3) And with film we can worry about focus accuracy, camera shake, running out of film at the wrong moment, having the wrong ISO installed, ... I contend that digital is much easier - and the proof is the drastic impact it's had on the professional photographer. Most amateurs can now make a decent hash of a photograph.

I rest m'case m'lord!
If you can mentally operate in mode 2) why bother with mode 1)? From my own experience Digital photography can lead you down the path to a more haphazard way of shooting compared to Analogue, due in part to the perceived cost-free pricing structure (but neglect the massive depreciation of digital cameras).

With regard to 3), I think we must be looking at entirely different examples of photographs taken with competent kit, especially with regard to the lens and the method of focusing. I see perfectly focused images, and no evidence of camera shake. I agree with running out of film, but that's equivalent to running out of battery charge at the decisive moment.

This is not to say I'll be switching over to film completely, but I think shooting a few roles from time to time is beneficial. (By the way, I met an accomplished photographer {ARPS} who shot both Digital and Analogue; his keepers with Analogue were almost 100%, and a roll of 36 would last a long time. With Digital he admitted he experimented and deleted many, resulting in the keeper rate being much lower.) The point is this, photographers today have a different attitude, everything is quick and disposable, even the images. I understand why colleges and universities teach using film with manual focus.
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  #33  
Old 19th February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

This is an interesting discussion.

I must say I'm mainly with the street photographer Thomas Leuthard: it's the end result that matters, and the process one has gone through to achieve it is in all important respects irrelevant.

He shoots in Programme mode and often on low-speed drive (used to be with an E-M10, although he may now have updated this) and I am highly sceptical that anyone could tell that from his output.

Now, some individuals can get a lot of personal pleasure from refining the process or even making it more difficult for themselves, and slowing down is a very valid creative technique for many types of photography, but 99.9% of the people looking at the images will not know or care or understand what went in to making them.

After all, are we making images for ourselves or others? If the former, why do we show them?

I'm obviously not talking about that genre of art photography where the process is actually more important than the image, or the image is only part of the whole (e.g. the work of Richard Long).
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  #34  
Old 20th February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

For me the process is very relevant. I don't hold with the process being irrelevant at all. For example, there's an article in this month's Black+White Photography Magazine (Issue 200) about the work of Jennifer Greenburg. One of her series of photographs is a modern take on America in the 1950s. The way the article is written makes it sound that she stages the entire photograph, dressing all the participants in period costume and choreographs the whole thing. But when I researched her work further it turns out that what she does is take found photographs from the 1950s, takes a photo of herself in period dress and photoshops it into the original photo. That's an entirely different thing from creating the whole photo from scratch and, to me at least, devalues her work considerably.

Compare that to the work of Alex Timmermans, for example, who sets up his wonderfully surreal photos from scratch and uses wet plate collodion - now that commands from me huge respect.

I suppose to an audience looking at the finished work on the walls of a gallery the process used to arrive at the image might not matter so much, but to me as a photographer the process makes a *massive* difference.

As for camera systems, I have far too many, but I can't seem to stop acquiring them. At the moment in terms of systems I have Olympus OM, OM-D, Hasselblad, Contax G, large format (2 5x4 cameras and several lenses), a couple of M42 mount cameras, and later today someone is giving me a Praktica system for free, which supposedly includes two bodies and several lenses.

By the way, some sought after film cameras seem to be rocketing in price at the moment, such as the Contax G2, Yashica T5, Olympus Mju II, Contax T2 and almost anything Leica (but especially the M6), Hasselblad or Rolleiflex. I'm kicking myself that I turned down a Mju II last year at 60. Hard to find one for less than 120 now.
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  #35  
Old 20th February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

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By the way, some sought after film cameras seem to be rocketing in price at the moment, such as the Contax G2, Yashica T5, Olympus Mju II, Contax T2 and almost anything Leica (but especially the M6), Hasselblad or Rolleiflex. I'm kicking myself that I turned down a Mju II last year at 60. Hard to find one for less than 120 now.
I notice that the OM cameras are now creeping up too. Not so much the OM10, but the OM2, OM4 and even the OM1 are going up.
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  #36  
Old 20th February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

Coincidentally I had looked at Ffordes' site earlier today and OM camera prices seem to be pretty much steady. I bought an OM-2n from them five years or so ago for 85 and they're still about that. Still my favourite OM camera.

There was a guy at a camera club I used to go to some years ago that was quite an expert at re-photographing prints and collages. Usually these were abstract compositions but one evening he showed a superb photo of a kingfisher sitting on a wooden fence. He gratefully accepted the praise before explaining that he'd cut the picture of the bird out of a magazine, stuck it onto a photo of the fence, and re-photographed the result. You had to look very closely to 'see the join', but then somebody pointed out that had it been a genuine photo that kingfisher would have been over a foot long! It's a sad fact of life these days I think that anything out of the ordinary photo-wise tends to be assumed to be the work of Photoshop .
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  #37  
Old 20th February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

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Originally Posted by cariadus View Post

By the way, some sought after film cameras seem to be rocketing in price at the moment, such as the Contax G2, Yashica T5, Olympus Mju II, Contax T2 and almost anything Leica (but especially the M6), Hasselblad or Rolleiflex. I'm kicking myself that I turned down a Mju II last year at 60. Hard to find one for less than 120 now.
Tell me about it!
Already owning Leica glass, the obvious choice for me is a Leica film camera, an M4, M6 or ideally an MP. As I deliberate, however, the price of an M6 (for example) seems to be going up by between 50 to 100 a month.
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  #38  
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

A lot of classic mechanical kit is becoming hipster-trendy: chronograph watches of the 60s and 70s, and some vintage British hifi are two further examples.

It's great to see this stuff used and it does give a lot of pleasure, but for example I've had several 1970s Heuer chronograph watches for 30+ years that I love, but in recent years a couple have become ridiculously valuable and I'm going to sell them because it makes me nervous carrying them around on the wrist.
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  #39  
Old 20th February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

Nothing nicer than to hear the sound of a cloth focal plane shutter doing its business, and the tactile feel of winding-on and shutter cocking. I also love mechanical watches, and if the cost of a service lub is amortised over a period of time, it's really no more expensive than the cost of replacement batteries for those vastly inferior digital watches.

Digital is basically throwaway junk but we would be lost without it. A double edged sword.
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  #40  
Old 21st February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

My watch has hands and a solar cell so it looks just like a traditional watch but never needs winding or a new battery .
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  #41  
Old 21st February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

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It's really no more expensive than the cost of replacement batteries for those vastly inferior digital watches.

Digital is basically throwaway junk but we would be lost without it. A double edged sword.
Yea - double edged sword indeed. There's no denying that 70s mechanical gear has a much better build in terms of its tactility and sense of ownership. It can also be repaired more easily. However, the cost of producing gear like that would put most people off today. We're used to cheaper (and throwaway) stuff.
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  #42  
Old 21st February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

Although WEE is helping somewhat, all the throwaway stuff in the Digital age is destroying the planet for the furure generations to come. They will curse us when the earth's valuable resources are dispersed making harvesting increasingly difficult.
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Old 21st February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

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My watch has hands and a solar cell so it looks just like a traditional watch but never needs winding or a new battery .
My watch has one hand pointing vertically from the clock face, a compass so I can orientate it correctly, and a solar powered light source acting as a point source from 93 Milion miles casting a shadow of the pointer allowing me to estimate the time to the nearest quarter.
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  #44  
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

I have a kinetic powered watch. It's fantastic not to have to rely on batteries.

Kendall Jenner probably just sent the price of Contax T2s soaring even further...

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  #45  
Old 21st February 2017
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Re: How not to choose a camera system.

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My watch has hands and a solar cell so it looks just like a traditional watch but never needs winding or a new battery .
I've also got one - it's a Casio 'Eco-Drive'.

It's the most accurate watch I've ever owned. It's not synchronised to a radio atomic clock, but is never more than a few seconds out. I never have to adjust it other than turn it back or forward an hour in spring and autumn. My partner has the lady's version and it's much the same.

Many years ago I had an Omega Speedmaster (the 'Moon Watch'). It looked good, but wasn't a patch on my Casio for accuracy.

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