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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #16  
Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

Great original post Rob and some excellent follow up comments guys. Enjoyed reading this thread.
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  #17  
Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

It's interesting to ask where photography goes. The art world may be a decent analogue. When photography came along there was ageneral opinion that painting was dead. I went to the RA Summer Exhibition and it doesn't look like it. Portraits would only be done in camera. The BP Portrait award suggests otherwise.
The point is that freed from spending their lives painting Lord and Lady Wotsit and their kids and dogs with the statly pile as a backdrop they became free to explore. Hence Impessionists, Expressionists, Fauves, Modernism and Performance Art. Some of this or even all of this may not be to your taste, but that's life.
With the advent of the smartphone, Facebook, Instagram etc. it looks like it might change photography the same way as eloquently expressed by RobEW above. Even the final product is changing. Prints are giving way to other media, see Brooks Jensen's talk on the OPtics event at B&H (search on YouTube), a practical exposition of ways to publish.
In the end it's probably a case of do it for your own fulfillment. Hang it on the wall produce a slide show that plays on your telly, enter competitions. Use it to express your deepest feelings, what you find intellectually challenging, to show beauty or just for personal enjoyment.
Sorry I will shut up now.
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  #18  
Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

At one time if we saw a particularly good photograph of a landscape or landmark we would possibly order a print for our own enjoyment.

Modern equipment has encouraged an 'I can do that' attitude amongst the masses, so off they trot to capture the view for themselves; often with little thought and mediocre results. At one time one saw lots of muddy boot marks in beauty spots, but it is now tripod marks, with far too many photographers planting their own tripods in exactly the same place as Joe Cornish, Charlie Waite and other renowned professionals.

Aside from the professionals named above, The quality of some commercial images that I have seen also leaves a lot to be desired, including blue skies Photoshopped onto landscapes and so forth.

As a society we also travel a lot more than we used to, so it has become quite normal to visit far-flung places on a day trip or weekend that in the past would only have been visited during annual holidays.
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Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

Not sure why our hobby is being belittled.

However many cruds use their nasty little telephones to record scenes, I will still enjoy using my State of the art gear to record what I see fit.

Some of us have the talent to produce tea spitting shots, most of us just try to do the same.

Not every one is a Gary Lineker or George Best, but that should not stop us enjoying soccer, and aspiring to the greats. My grandson is really aspiring to both of those....................

Its my hobby, I enjoy it. get on with it.................:-)
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Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

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Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
Not every one is a Gary *Winogrand* but that should not stop us enjoying *photography*, and aspiring to *be* great. :-)
I'll give it my best shot !!
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Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

This is what Henri Cartier-Bresson had to say:
"If there is no emotion, if there is no shock, if we do not react to the sensibility, we should not take a photo. It is the photo which takes us."
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  #22  
Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
This is what Henri Cartier-Bresson had to say:
"If there is no emotion, if there is no shock, if we do not react to the sensibility, we should not take a photo. It is the photo which takes us."
Except that if using digital there is no reason not to take the photograph.
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Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

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Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
Not sure why our hobby is being belittled.

However many cruds use their nasty little telephones to record scenes, I will still enjoy using my State of the art gear to record what I see fit.

Some of us have the talent to produce tea spitting shots, most of us just try to do the same.

Not every one is a Gary Lineker or George Best, but that should not stop us enjoying soccer, and aspiring to the greats. My grandson is really aspiring to both of those....................

Its my hobby, I enjoy it. get on with it.................:-)
I don't think your hobby is being belittled; it is more a case that photography, like many pursuits, has been seriously 'dumbed down' in recent years, and that rarely ends well.
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  #24  
Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

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Originally Posted by Petrochemist View Post
It seems to me that photographic clubs vary hugely.
From what I hear some of the local clubs are all about competitions, so that no one will share tips/techniques as that might give others an advantage in the competitions. Very sad IMO.


The club I go to regularly calls itself a photographic workshop and is all about learning together. I've found that explaining basics repeatedly helps give a fuller understanding of them, and even complete beginners can ask questions that open up new approaches. At least half our members are experienced photographers so there can be some quite advanced stuff too
I am not in a camera club because of the travelling I have to do between 3 different countries. By coincidence a good friend goes to a photography club in Clacton and since going there, the images he produces has improved in leaps and bounds. He is also trying out new subjects and techniques. There are many positives in what you describe. One can only learn so much on the internet or from watching YouTube tutorials. If I didn't need to travel so much, I would definitely join a club/workshop.
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Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Except that if using digital there is no reason not to take the photograph.
Yeah, I think I read that in Street 101...
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Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

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I started out with an OM1n film camera that my wife bought as a birthday present. We live near a park with a large lake and my wife still swears to this day that I photographed every single duck and swan on the lake at least 10 times. What she doesn't know is I've still got all the prints In those days it was a very expensive hobby considering developing and printing costs. I doubt if anyone could have afforded to take the number of photos we seem to take now with digital.

John
Printing is still expensive. A decent A3+ printer and the ink to feed it costs rather a lot of money. Of course pictures on screen are cheap but they are not actual tangible photos - are they ?
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Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Very nicely put, thank you.


I enjoy using my OM-D E-M1 MkII, and I am under no illusions that the MkII would make me a better photographer. It won't. However, I do find that using a medium format camera (I have a Mamiya 645 and RZ67) makes me take much more 'considered' photographs, which I enjoy setting up and taking far more than on any of my digital cameras.

On the odd occasion that I have managed to shoot a roll of blanks I have still enjoyed the experience, and don't feel that the world is any poorer for my photographic malfunction.
Nothing to stop "considered" photos on digital. And there were lots of dire snapshots taken on Box Brownies as I remember.
But yes I agree most photos would be better if they were more considered but there were degrees of considered. Some MF users used to consider 35mm users to be snappers. I suppose the same applied to 4 x 5 glass negs users and MF users.
Jeff
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  #28  
Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

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Originally Posted by chorleyjeff View Post
Printing is still expensive. A decent A3+ printer and the ink to feed it costs rather a lot of money. Of course pictures on screen are cheap but they are not actual tangible photos - are they ?
Very true they are not tangible photos and I do appreciate the current costs of printing.

In the old days though if you were not into developing and printing you sent off the roll of film to be developed and printed, paid your money then discovered how many bad shots you'd taken. Now at least we don't have that expense, being able to view and choose what shots are keepers without any expense and choose whether to print or not.

I'm also willing to bet that a very high percentage of shots taken never see an A4 printer never mind an A3 unless of course involved in a commercial way.

John
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Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

Or in the old days, having perfectly framed pictures of a lens cap, or a finger or two. Not that SLR users would know about such things.
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Old 3rd August 2017
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Re: Photography, expectations, standards, originality

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
This is what Henri Cartier-Bresson had to say:
"If there is no emotion, if there is no shock, if we do not react to the sensibility, we should not take a photo. It is the photo which takes us."
This of course is a quote caught in a time warp like so many that are bandied around about photography today and dare I say, which are totally irrelevant in the world we find ourselves. It concerns me that words like 'masses', ' done to death', 'mediocre' and 'dumbing down' are used in the context of those people for whom photography is nothing more than the creation of a snapshot to record a place or a person. Should we care if these images never see a printer or scale the heights, I suggest we shouldn't.

It really doesn't matter if if the results do not match those taken by enthusiasts, what are the people referred to here doing that upsets others? What harm is being done? We have an easy choice which is to stop looking and perhaps also stop being so judgemental. Photography is a wonderful hobby, people have to start somewhere, many will not want to take masterpieces, so be it. After all, the cameras that they buy help the development of the cameras we own and covet.

There, that feels better.

David
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